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Brexit

Westminstenders: A False Sense of Security

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/04/2019 22:34

The new exit date, unless we agree a deal sooner, is the 31st October.

It seems ages away, but its runs the risk of a false sense of security too.

The first deadline is May 22nd. The Conservative Party would dearly like to avoid European Elections. They are already liable to face wipe out in the early May local elections, as the party was at its peak in 2015 under Cameron when there were last elections.

The EU elections have the added danger of proportional representation meaning UKIP and The Brexit Party could win seats from them. This is despite polling suggesting that Ukip and the Brexit Party are unlikely to reach the high watermark of 2015 and this could lead to fewer UKIP style MEPs this time round.

The liklihood of a deal by 22nd May is low though. Especially given how well Tory - Labour talks are going. The potential for a deal seems remote in the next few weeks.

The next deadline falls on 30th June. If we do have EU elections, the next target for the Tory Party is the end of June to get a deal before the newly elected MEPs can take their seats. However if the goal is unachievable before EU elections, it seems unlikely that agreement will be found in the next 30 days unless there is a major change of heart amongst the hardcore ERG and the DUP. Labour will want to see the Tories humiliated too much.

May who says she will go, will face another wave of pressure to resign during May and June. Messages out of No10, though not May herself, had indicated an exit around 22nd May on the condition a deal was done. Crafty as ever, what May actually said was she would stay on until we reached the second stage of Brexit and had effectively left. This now falls as late as Oct 31st, thus killing plans for a summer Tory leader election.

Once we get past June though, time for a deal, any deal starts to become very limited. Parliament only sits until mid July. Here May hits another problem. The two year parliamentary session ends. There has been talk of it being extended but the DUP have firmly said no to this.

This means when parliament is due to return in September we have an issue. To start a new session May will need a majority to pass a Queens Speech. If the DUP and Hardline ERGers withdraw support in protest at May still being PM what happens? Can May win support from elsewhere. It seems unlikely.

At this point the question of a General Election looms large. And we only have six weeks from then before we exit the EU. If a GE is triggered then, the risk of no deal is extremely high, which might encourage some to support May from across the aisle to prevent parliament from being shut and losing those crucial six weeks.

The danger over the next few weeks, is there is a false sense of there being lots of time left. The reality is our real deadline might be in effect the end of the parliamentary session in mid July. After that all bets are off.

The date of 31st October isn't the one you should keep your eyes on.

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1tisILeClerc · 16/04/2019 11:27

{so I hope Labour won’t cave to pressure and agree to a WA soon so the EUs can be cancelled}
The WA HAS to be signed before the EU will open ANY trade discussions. The biggest problem is that so far it seems no one in cabinet or the HoC/HoL has managed to get this into their heads and so far are simply dancing around their handbags and ignoring this critical fact.
The whole of the UK can 'hate' the WA but that is ALL there is and it has to be signed. You could reasonably argue that the UK are 'rats in a trap' and that the trap closed when A50 was declared over 2 years ago. Had the UK entered negotiations in a positive spirit and ACTIONS from the time when A50 was triggered, things could be a lot different, but the UK cabinet has not even attempted to negotiate properly or politely.

TheMShip · 16/04/2019 12:12

My immediate thought on seeing Notre Dame in flames was of our own parliament. It's in such bad shape. I was pleased to see others are thinking the same thing: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/16/notre-dame-fire-parliament-restoration-cannot-wait

lonelyplanetmum · 16/04/2019 12:32

Yup Parliament restoration can't wait. So, I'm seriously repeating my previous tongue in cheek suggestion.

Clean start

1.Try and get another EU extension.
2.Find a temporary location for the H oC North of Watford.

  1. Sit in a round chamber and revisit the issues.

Yes it will cost millions but we were the 5th richest nation. It will be a splash in the ocean of Brexit costs of £500m a week (and rising) according to the Centre for European Reform.

Hasenstein · 16/04/2019 12:36

My immediate thought on seeing Notre Dame in flames was of our own parliament. It's in such bad shape. I was pleased to see others are thinking the same thing

Lots of people talking about the significance of Notre Dame and its importance in the French psyche. Imagine the symbolic repercussions if the HoC burnt down (right at the time when its getting its soverintay back, too).

I'd be quite happy if they restored the building and made it fit for tourist tours, while building a modern horseshoe-shaped parliament in its place, somewhere well away from London.

ElenadeClermont · 16/04/2019 12:46

My immediate thought on seeing the Notre Dame in flames was "This wonderful government did not fit sprinkler systems into SCHOOLS, because they cost money." Sorry for shouting.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-47923843

Ellie56 · 16/04/2019 12:46

Chris Curtis of The Guardian seems to think the odious NF has a good chance of topping the EU elections with his new formed Brexit Party...

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/16/bet-nigel-farage-brexit-party-winning-eu-elections

BestIsWest · 16/04/2019 13:16

I'd be quite happy if they restored the building and made it fit for tourist tours, while building a modern horseshoe-shaped parliament in its place, somewhere well away from London.

Agree

DGRossetti · 16/04/2019 13:39
Icantreachthepretzels · 16/04/2019 13:47

Chris Curtis of The Guardian seems to think the odious NF has a good chance of topping the EU elections with his new formed Brexit Party.

It's more important than ever, then that the remain parties work together to ensure they don't split their vote. Here's hoping the Lib Dems and Greens see sense. maybe I should email them...

HunkyDory69 · 16/04/2019 13:56

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ElenadeClermont · 16/04/2019 14:24

Extract from the response from my Labour front bench MP:

So, to date, I have taken all these things into consideration when voting on the Withdrawal Agreement in the past few weeks, particularly in relation to securing the best future for our constituency as well as the rest of the UK.

Something, which has particularly concerned me is that so many people, in our constituency, who voted to leave the EU, now feel that the democratic process has let them down and that their vote has been worthless, particularly because of the growing demand for a ‘peoples vote’ or second referendum.

Because of the high level of genuine disaffection with the democratic process, I decided it would be right for me to break the Labour Party Whip, so I initially abstained then later voted against a second referendum.

I have also written to Jeremy Corbyn to let him know of my concern about this issue and to ask him to take a second referendum off the table in the Brexit discussions with the Prime Minister.

I sincerely hope the current talks will result in a compromise that can gain the support of most MPs and I agree with the Shadow BEIS Secretary, Rebecca Long Bailey, that if the majority of MPs, as elected representatives, do support a suitable deal, there will be no need for any further ratification beyond Parliament.

Icantreachthepretzels · 16/04/2019 14:40

now feel that the democratic process has let them down

The democratic process has let them down. they were asked to settle an internal tory party civil way by giving an answer to a question they did not have enough knowledge, information and expertise to answer properly. The referendum abused the democratic process by outsourcing a party problem to the electorate and thus giving them the opportunity to really fuck things up for themselves, whilst naively believing that the government would never ask, if the consequences would be as bad as all that.

The democratic process was then further undermined by foreign investment, illegal spending and outright lies.

their vote has been worthless
Well - they voted to make themselves poorer whilst voting to bind parliament into a unbreakable morass that meant they couldn't focus on all the domestic issues that the voters actually cared about. Potato/potarto

If the leave voters in any area feel the democratic process has been undermined and their vote was worthless they are quite correct to feel that way because it is true. The question is - why are politicians still working to conceal that fact from them, refusing to risk hurting their feelings, rather than admit the truth?

And especially why are Labour politicians working to conceal the truth of the great tory fuck up - when it isn't actually their mess?

Mps need to start speaking truth to the electorate - even if it's a truth the electorate do not want to hear.

1tisILeClerc · 16/04/2019 14:42

ElenadeClermont
That reply you posted highlights the problem, (s)he hasn't understood that the WA HAS to be signed whatever the UK thinks.
The UK has already jumped out of a plane with no parachute, the only choice the UK can make is to land on your face or your back.

ElenadeClermont · 16/04/2019 15:26

I thought she just said leavers are sensitive souls, so the rest of you will just have to suck it up.

1tislLeClerc I am ashamed to say I am also in a bit of denial still. Blush

DGRossetti · 16/04/2019 15:30

So Stonehenge was built by immigrants, eh ?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47938188

The ancestors of the people who built Stonehenge travelled west across the Mediterranean before reaching Britain, a study has shown.

(contd)

1tisILeClerc · 16/04/2019 16:46

ElenadeClermont
Don't feel bad, you are in both good and bad company in that it seems relatively few in the UK have actually understood this. Mr Barnier has been saying this since October/November almost weekly in English but it is not sinking in.
Strangely everyone (that is interested) outside the UK does seem to understand this.

Motheroffourdragons · 16/04/2019 16:50

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RedToothBrush · 16/04/2019 17:04

Paul Waugh@paulwaugh
Battle of wills going on right now at top of Labour, over coveted London MEP selections. NEC panel wants^
1 Laura Parker
2 Claude Moraes
3 Taranjit Chana
4 Seb Dance
5 Katy Clark
But allies of General Secretary pushing
1 Moraes
2 Dance
3 Parke
4 Chana
5 Qureshi.

Labour's four current MEPs are
Claude Moraes,
Mary Honeyball,
Lucy Anderson,
Seb Dance

I am personally completely gobsmacked at the mere suggestion that Seb Dance might not get priority as a sitting MEP, especially given his profile is probably higher than any of the others.

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RedToothBrush · 16/04/2019 17:08

Paul Waugh@paulwaugh
Given that Labour could go down to from 4 to 3 MEP seats in London (in 2014 the d'hondte list system gave the party half the seats without anything like half the vote), the NEC panel suggestion could mean sitting MEP @SebDance is effectively de-selected.

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Sunshine1239 · 16/04/2019 17:47

Corby mb has stated many many times that labour will only hold a referendum to avoid a bad Tory brexit or no deal. If he’s happy with an agreed deal then he has said this doesn’t need to go to the vote. That’s what was voted on

QueenOfThorns · 16/04/2019 18:01

My DH got a letter from the council this morning telling him that he needed to register to vote in the EP elections and enclosing the form. I’m not sure whether this is going on everywhere, but hopefully it’ll help boost turnout. We didn’t know that EU citizens had to register until I read it here!

NoWordForFluffy · 16/04/2019 18:01

I see that the Independent Group - Change UK is now an official party. Good luck to all of those among us who have applied to become an MEP. 🍀

HazardGhost · 16/04/2019 18:20

hasenstein welcome back Flowers

sos wonderful news that you dgd is improving - hope she can come home soon.

stripey facing the loss of a pet is very upsetting. My boy is getting on in years. He's been a constant crutch for me and I can make myself cry complete with mascara streaks just at the thought of saying goodbye. Lots of love to you, your DD and ddog.

Sorry forgot it's a brexit thread! Let me just get my surprised face ready that the ukip bloke running for MEP is 'orrible...

Shock

Look at me shooketh

Oh what's that Tories making it harder for disabled people to vote

Shock

Double shooketh.

Iambuffy · 16/04/2019 18:23

Welcome back hasenstein

sos hoping the improvement is continuing

hazard colour me surprised too

RedToothBrush · 16/04/2019 18:25

Paul Waugh@paulwaugh
Update: I'm told the NEC Officers had already agreed that sitting MEPs will get priority. That's why NEC panel apparently trying to unpick that decision is prompting pushback.

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