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Brexit

Westminstenders: A False Sense of Security

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/04/2019 22:34

The new exit date, unless we agree a deal sooner, is the 31st October.

It seems ages away, but its runs the risk of a false sense of security too.

The first deadline is May 22nd. The Conservative Party would dearly like to avoid European Elections. They are already liable to face wipe out in the early May local elections, as the party was at its peak in 2015 under Cameron when there were last elections.

The EU elections have the added danger of proportional representation meaning UKIP and The Brexit Party could win seats from them. This is despite polling suggesting that Ukip and the Brexit Party are unlikely to reach the high watermark of 2015 and this could lead to fewer UKIP style MEPs this time round.

The liklihood of a deal by 22nd May is low though. Especially given how well Tory - Labour talks are going. The potential for a deal seems remote in the next few weeks.

The next deadline falls on 30th June. If we do have EU elections, the next target for the Tory Party is the end of June to get a deal before the newly elected MEPs can take their seats. However if the goal is unachievable before EU elections, it seems unlikely that agreement will be found in the next 30 days unless there is a major change of heart amongst the hardcore ERG and the DUP. Labour will want to see the Tories humiliated too much.

May who says she will go, will face another wave of pressure to resign during May and June. Messages out of No10, though not May herself, had indicated an exit around 22nd May on the condition a deal was done. Crafty as ever, what May actually said was she would stay on until we reached the second stage of Brexit and had effectively left. This now falls as late as Oct 31st, thus killing plans for a summer Tory leader election.

Once we get past June though, time for a deal, any deal starts to become very limited. Parliament only sits until mid July. Here May hits another problem. The two year parliamentary session ends. There has been talk of it being extended but the DUP have firmly said no to this.

This means when parliament is due to return in September we have an issue. To start a new session May will need a majority to pass a Queens Speech. If the DUP and Hardline ERGers withdraw support in protest at May still being PM what happens? Can May win support from elsewhere. It seems unlikely.

At this point the question of a General Election looms large. And we only have six weeks from then before we exit the EU. If a GE is triggered then, the risk of no deal is extremely high, which might encourage some to support May from across the aisle to prevent parliament from being shut and losing those crucial six weeks.

The danger over the next few weeks, is there is a false sense of there being lots of time left. The reality is our real deadline might be in effect the end of the parliamentary session in mid July. After that all bets are off.

The date of 31st October isn't the one you should keep your eyes on.

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Sostenueto · 15/04/2019 19:30

DGD currently asleep. She now cannot eat only in liquid form as tongue is covered in black spots. She said she's a good advert for the plague.Grin at least she can still laugh. We watched GOT then she was so wore out she nodded off. Lovely staff on ward and they will come and sit with her while I get a meal because she can't be left in case of a bleed. DD gone home to sleep.
Talking about GOT to take my mind off things the story is about power, in no way related to politicians who hijack it. But the real story is that whilst man goes about fighting over power climate change ( the white walkers) wipe them all out. Hence the Stark family motto "Winter is coming".

TalkinPaece · 15/04/2019 19:33

Motheroffourdragons
Now the spire has collapsed, I can't believe it will be able to be restored.
You underestimate the Europeans.
Look at the cities that were utterly destroyed in WW2 and were rebuilt, even with the window frames still wonky.

Where there is a will there is a way.

THe House of Commons was largely destroyed in WW2 (yup that old looking interior is all repro)
or even Uppark House

Some things need a total rebuild, sadly its other things that have it thrust upon them

Jux · 15/04/2019 19:39

Gosh, I never realised that about GOT. I haven't seen the tv series - well, a friend made me watch two episodes when I was staying with her a few years ago, really well done I thought. I've read the first 3 books, quite a long time ago (about 10 years?

You've made it sound worth rereading with the climate change aspect in the forefront of my mind!

Awful about Notre Dame, such an extraordinary building.

yolofish · 15/04/2019 19:44

so sad about Notre Dame, and being on an island can only make it harder to reach.
Flowers for sos and dgd

1tisILeClerc · 15/04/2019 19:57

The French town near me was 80% flattened and several hundred killed by the allies in WW2. The 'leaflet drop' warning was dropped in the wrong area. A lot of European towns and cities were totally destroyed, never mind the loss of life.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2019 19:57

Thinking of you & DGD, sos 💐
You are both such strong women

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2019 20:07

Ken Clarke: ‘Brexit is like a parody version of student politics’

Very interesting in-depth interview with Ken Clarke

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/15/ken-clarke-mp-brexit-parody-student-politics-conservative-tory-europe

“I think referendums are ridiculous.

One opinion poll with a simple yes/no answer to a question that contains hundreds of complex questions.

Referendums are designed to get round parliamentary government, and people only demand referendums when they think they can’t get a majority in parliament.”

He takes a breath. “Mussolini was the most brilliant practitioner of referendums.”

But no one’s urging Clarke to become a habitual user of referendums.
Just one, to deal with the mess left by the last one.
“Just one they think they might win,” he says of the second referendum crowd,

“Unless remain won by an enormous majority, I don’t think it would solve anything.

I think it would just lead to bitter, angry division, which is already there among the public.
I think the campaigning would almost certainly be as silly as it was last time.”

BestIsWest · 15/04/2019 20:18

Look at Reims Cathedral, completely devastated by WW2 and look at it now. There is hope.

BestIsWest · 15/04/2019 20:23

WWI sorry.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2019 20:24

Frankfurt Römer, a big square of historical buildings, was destroyed in WW2
but rebuilt in all detail and is beautiful today

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2019 20:33

Downing Street under pressure to close down Labour talks on Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/15/downing-street-under-pressure-to-close-down-labour-talks-on-brexit

No 10 scrambles to explore options before possible heavy losses in EU elections
.......
Conservative party officials are privately acknowledging the party will lose around half of their MEPs.

The party is so concerned about defections to the Brexit party and Change UKUK^ that all candidates are being asked to sign legal undertakings that they would resign as MEPs if they were to jump ship for another party.*

“They are worried about losing MEPs on both ends of the spectrum.
It could be a major embarrassment,” one candidate to become an MEP said.

1tisILeClerc · 15/04/2019 20:43

{The government’s alternative plan is for MPs to thrash out an acceptable version of May’s deal through a series of votes or by amending the withdrawal bill, but experts said there was barely enough time to do this in the five weeks before the European elections.}
Taken from that Guardian link.

Has there been any suggestion from Mr Barnier and team that there could be any 'adjustment' of the existing WA or are the MPs still talking crap?

borntobequiet · 15/04/2019 20:48

Once a fund is started to rebuild Notre Dame, I will donate.

TalkinPaece · 15/04/2019 20:51

LeClerc
Has there been any suggestion from Mr Barnier and team that there could be any 'adjustment' of the existing WA or are the MPs still talking crap?
There has been specific mention by Mr Tusk and Mr Barnier that the WA is sealed
amendments can be made to the PD
but the WA is signed and sealed
and the starting point for negotiations in the event of a No Deal return

mathanxiety · 15/04/2019 20:55

Horrible news from Paris - the Notre Dame is on fire and complete ruin is predicted. So sad.

TokyoSushi · 15/04/2019 20:58

PMK

DGRossetti · 15/04/2019 20:59

The party is so concerned about defections to the Brexit party and* Change UKUK that all candidates are being asked to sign legal undertakings that they would resign as MEPs if they were to jump ship for another party

I'd be very curious as to how enforceable that would be. It certainly wouldn't in the UK.

1tisILeClerc · 15/04/2019 21:16

TalkinPaece
I was 100% convinced the WA is 'sealed' but as I have been away since mid last week wondered if there had been a change so would I would have been very surprised. So it's just the UK fantasising again!

TalkinPaece · 15/04/2019 21:23

So it's just the UK fantasising again!
Comme toujours

1tisILeClerc · 15/04/2019 21:34

How long is it going to take the UK government and MPs to work out that with ANY version of leaving the existing WA as it stands HAS to be signed before the EU will discuss any meaningful trade?
If I can write it in one sentence, why can't they understand?

Jux · 15/04/2019 21:44

They just don't want to, leClerc.

WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 15/04/2019 21:50

pretty thank you for the explanation of the voting system, makes sense now!

prettybird · 15/04/2019 21:57

The problem is that they don't trust this (or any) government with the future implementation of the PD - and I wouldn't either Confused

But rather than trying to open the WA ( not going to happen Hmm ), what's needed is the counter-intuitive tightening up of the PD - making more of it a legal international treaty (like the WA Wink) and therefore future proofing it against a future ERG-supported PM. Shock

But then you slam up against the same old problems of the fundamental fault lines of No Deal Hard Brexiters versus BINO (even more you consider the possibility of Remain/Revoke) Confused

RedToothBrush · 15/04/2019 21:58

[[twitter.com/maggiekb1/status/1117874743711948800
Thread on how Notre Dame was in a really bad way structurally. And the potential ramifications.

Maggie Koerth-Baker @maggiekb1
Also, this is gonna tie into nationalist politics in Europe. The fallout from Notre Dame burning isn't just going to be about a cathedral.

Don Ramon del Corazon Sagrado de la Mancha @vf3975
Cultural preservation is one of the mainstays of manifestos across the European nationalist/populist spectrum. Le Pen had a state-sponsored proposal regarding its financing and execution, and Macron has tried to launch proposals regarding the subject in order to counter...

A tragedy for history, for Paris and a symbolic one which will have political ramifications.

The sheer number of people on the streets watching the fire is incredible and telling.

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