Westminstenders: 1001 Ways to wait for EUCO - Sprouts, Nits and Brexit

[RedToothBrush]

Not much more to say other than, all we can do is wait to hear our fate.

Which seems to lie in the hands of Macron.

I think these tweet sums a lot of it up from a couple of jaded soft leavers

Iain Martin @ iainmartin1
This terrible farce in Brussels tonight is like being British during the eurovision song contest. British entrant awaits fate, watching humiliating results come in, trying to smile for the audience back home.

George Trefgarne @georgetrefgarne
To be honest I think Buck’s Fizz and Cheryl thingummy would have made a better job of it

My advice: Don't wait up!

Pippa Crerar @pippacrerar
EU source on Macron: "He is in a bit of a schizophrenic situation - (his) domestic audience demands that he is tough on Britain for historic reasons. On the other hand, France is among the most-hit in any no-deal Brexit. It will take hours before we pull him down from his tree."

So Macron may end up being the one who gets the UK what it wants but is doing it to be tough on us. I'm not sure I understand EU politics.

Everyone does know that Led by Donkeys registered both
www.thebrexitparty.com
and
www.thebrexitparty.org

Love the Led by Donkeys team.

Sorry don't click on the second one!

Led by donkeys dot .com
Farage has dot. .org

I am registered to vote! I also love the LedbyDonkeys campaign. Whilst the referendum has been a massive and expensive mistake, it's had the unintended side effect of changing politics. I am now waiting for the Tory party (and possibly Labour) to break up. It's too big an issue to be swept under the carpet, with entrenched positions on either side.

I wonder if any of the manifestos will challenge the FPTP system again?

Oh and one of the advantages of the side chats is that we get used to talking to real people. Consequently, when an "interloper" arrives, they are pretty easy to spot. I feel bad now - I really am not a bot! I lurk, but don't post much because I never seem to catch up with the threads - like this post, I'm always about 3 pages behind But I am in awe of how knowledgeable so many of you are and on so many topics - thank you!

very late to respond (still trying to catch up!) but
Motheroffourdragons Thu 11-Apr-19 23:05:59 I have a stupid question -non brexit related - does anybody know why a small garden bird would out of the blue start attacking your patio door all the bloody time? And what can be done except getting a cat to scare it off?

I had one particular blackbird spend a lot of time doing exactly that. He was a bit of an eccentric character anyway, and turned out to be a very good father! I like to think he was the great, great, (x about 15) grandfather of the ones who raised babies in the garden this year, although none have shown similar headbanging traits since. Maybe I should clean my windows more often

But if she did - the distrust of politicians is so high the wavering voters would react against her new position.

Sorry, but I'm getting a little tired of hearing about "distrust of politicians" as if it's like sex, and something the younger generation somehow invented. It's been endemic for years. And the whole idea that somehow Brexit is due to a distrust of politicians is a slight distortion of the reality.

The reality is people were distrustful of Tory politicians. Brexit was a fuck-you to the Tories.

If - as is claimed in between hammer blows trying to ram Brexit through - the people that voted for Brexit were disillusioned with politicians then why did they think politicians were going to be the answer ? To anything ?

Just to play devils advocate, the real problem isn't distrust of politicians. It's trustingthe fuckers. Because that's how "I always vote " comes about meaning people get elected with no incentive to serve their "core demographic".

If people shopped around for their politicians a bit more, then politicians would suddenly realise they're under scrutiny.

The idea of a "safe seat" runs counter to the idea of democracy.

Geist I suspect the blackbird sees its reflection and attacks, thinking it's another male bird invading its territory. Try taping some light coloured paper behind the window to reduce the reflection, maybe?

I wonder if any of the manifestos will challenge the FPTP system again?

That will prove to be a once in a lifetime chance .

The 2010 election was a clear signal of what will happen if it's not fixed. And I suspect - well hope actually - that the majority of 2015 turns out to be a freak in a repetition of NoM parliaments as the electoral dynamics deliver what the electoral system won't.

Both Labour and Tory probably believed that if they killed any form of PR, they'd go back to the "good old days" of one majority, then another. It would be rich justice if instead, they managed to fossilise a repeatedly unstable parliament. Particularly after having to listen to years of sneering at PR delivering coalitions.

sos Dead fish heads !
(you sure this is a bestie ?)

DGR I know it's extremely hypothetical but what do you and other ex think would happen if TM or a Right wing Tory successor embraced Remain?

As you know I'm an ardent advocate of the EU and it's many, many positives. But even my faith would be momentarily undermined if say TM or Farage or any of the ERG embraced it! I would have some second thoughts if they did.

It's not so much the distrust of politicians element that I'm interested in but more in how a reactionary element influences voting patterns.

Other's' not ex ?- typo queen am I.

The Tories are normally coldly practical and ruthless about sacrificing any person or policy to maintain power,
for as long as possible.

This Tory Brexit fanaticism is an aberration, which may die off as quickly as it sprung up
IFF
they get hammered electorally and realise it could keep them out of power for many years

So, they need to be really hammered in the locals, the EP elections and the GE

Brexit only became feasible because one of the 2 main parties took it up
If it gets dropped because of cold political calculation, or sheer embarassment at not being able to do it,
then it will return to the fringe of flat earthers and trufers

We need to make Brexit be the embarassing fart in a lift,
that everyone denies and walks away from quickly

Geist I suspect the blackbird sees its reflection and attacks, thinking it's another male bird invading its territory.

Are Blackbirds corvids ? Magpies (Love 'em ) know their own reflection. One of a few animals that do. (And are generally the Einstein of the bird world ....)

Missbel I did assume at the time that the blackbird was attacking its own reflection. It was only after posting my comment on here, I realised I had actually omitted that answer to the pp question! Thank you for taking the time to reply

@lonely I see where you are coming from, sometimes I feel I need to question what I thought I knew - eg the Vidal stuff. Then I worry I'm tying links in where there are none...
I think realistically if someone like TM tried to reinvent herself as pro-remain the public would ignore and see it as a cheap trick. If Grieve was ushered back and became their chosen leader, it could be different.

I think enough has been said on all sides over 3 years for a plethora of data to show why people did/said certain things. It isn't hard to see who was using the limelight for their own ends and who was really standing up for the public.

I think realistically if someone like TM tried to reinvent herself as pro-remain the public would ignore and see it as a cheap trick.

Yes I think that's right. So paradoxically her sticking to the WA agreement+ PD has enabled the tide to turn.

So when we push for her to Revoke.Actually that's not what we do want...TM saying we're doing it would be counter productive -the wavering crucial section of the public could react and swing back to Leave.

It's all very confusing- obs I know what I want the country to achieve but using BCFs fart in a lift analogy TM clinging to her current path seems more likely to achieve that result.

Just trying to figure out the political psychology and what and who needs to happen in the short time available- think it has to be a GE but what result could help.

I think the Corvids and attacking your own reflection has some deeper resonance but can't quite apply it!

DGR, blackbirds aren't corvids, they're part of the thrush family

DGR I know it's extremely hypothetical but what do you and other ex think would happen if TM or a Right wing Tory successor embraced Remain?

When the spin machine got behind it, it would be hailed as the best thing since sliced bread.

I'm thinking that having failed to push Brexit through on the 29th (and now today) and the total lack of Armageddon that hasn't ensued, the people backing Brexit are taking stock. I can't see them being too impressed that despite the considerable expense - both legal and illegal (and that shoe has yet to drop ....) the UK remains a member of the EU. Not only that, but we are a member at the pleasure of the EU.

Are they willing to spaff good money after bad ? And if they do, will they end up with the Brexit they wanted ?

A few months ago, I would have imagined that the brains putting the money into Brexit had done their fucking research and knew what they were doing. But the ongoing HPE/Autonomy case in the High Court (comedy gold, if you like courtroom capers ) reveals that even when $11 billion (yes, you read that right. $11 billion) are involved, it's quite acceptable for the CEO to sign it off without reading it. (Yes, read the court transcripts).

If even one 100th that level of incompetence has been behind Brexit, then the backers are going to take the hit and move on.

In that case, the question is will they turn on Farage and co for selling them a pup. I can imagine the "Goldfinger" like meeting around a table where Farage is sweating and explaining why Brexit still hasn't happened.

We know there were dark forces at work behind Brexit. We can also be fairly sure that if the UK had left on the 29th - or even today - it's likely things would already be very different.

I think a lot of work went into trying to get Brexit over by 29th March. Now it's passed, and there's a brief luxury of time ... time for local elections, EP elections ... it will be increasingly harder to back the WA, and with that - there goes Brexit.

And even if we do leave, via the WA, it won't be be Brexit that was required ... God Bless the DUP ! Three cheers for the DUP.

One thing I think is certain, is that if May had not had the election in 2017, we'd be out of the EU by now. And in hindsight, I really don't see why she felt the need to call the election ???? If she was looking to somehow validate her premiership (which I bet she now regrets) the time to have done that was immediately upon being elected. The same way Gordon Brown should have. I'm sure they would have both won in their own right.

Along with "what if John Smith had never died ?" a key question in post-Thatcher Britain is what if Gordon Brown had held - and won - a general election in 2007 ?

Anyway, the washing machine has beeped, so knickers to you

Geist Sorry -I should have read back through the thread - I can't keep up any more!

Missbel no one would think you were a bot! It's the weird stilted language that gives them away, if provoked they often resort to sloganeering and insults.

@OliverNorgrove
I can't emphasise this enough. Farage was the first political figure ever to inspire me, around 4 years ago. As I grew older and watched so many of his pronouncements crumble at the feet of reality, I realised what an ignorant charlatan he really is.

It's very hard to keep up on the threads..astonishing volume of posts really.

While DGR is doing his laundry -in response to in hindsight, I really don't see why she felt the need to call the election ?

I think it was 100% looking to validate her premiership especially with the ERG agitating away. Also maybe to give a full term on a new manifesto to get Brexit through- time that was largely squandered.

And on the subject of laundry one of our cats loves it. All aspects , washing line, folding, ironing.He can hear a towel being folded or a clean duvet cover being applied at 300 paces and comes running just to be involved in the process.