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Brexit

Westminstenders: The gall of the french

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2019 22:04

We are full steam ahead with European Parliamentary Elections! Something that seemed unthinkable a few weeks ago.

May still remains adament that they will not happen, but the die has been cast.

May is off to beg Macron and Merkel to back an extension but the French are already stating they want assurances we won't screw thing up for everyone else.

May still is pushing for a deal with Corbyn and a Not a compromise.

Still there is no sign of a breakthrough either for an extension nor over a cross party deal. It drags on, but at least no one has mentioned the WA for ten minutes.

We might yet be in Europe for another Eurovision. Psychologically this feels important.

The ERG are not happy.

OP posts:
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DGRossetti · 10/04/2019 10:59

On that note, April 12th (or March 29th, if you prefer. Seems synchronicity is alive and well Grin can become "Farage Friday"

DGRossetti · 10/04/2019 11:00

If anyone wants some good news to spin along with the current direction of travel ...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47878341

woman19 · 10/04/2019 11:02

I like this lad:

@IanDunt
stop asking for apologies, or some kind of bizarre political show trial, or repentance, from Leavers who change their mind. It is self-harm of the highest order.

Welcoming open arms are the order of the day.

But quite apart from the strategic reasoning: It really is genuinely brave to go from one tribe to another, or just to shift position in a way that sees you being called a traitor.

You've no back up, but you're laying yourself open to attack from those who used to feel the same as you. It takes real independence of mind and people should be commended for it.

whose nemesis is hopefully approaching over Leave spending
The best we could hope for is Truth and Reconciliation commission.
Andrew Adonis, though, on the latest 'The European' podcast talked about the paper trails civil servants are getting in order for potential trials.

Letterkennie · 10/04/2019 11:02

You’re going too fast! I can’t keep up! PMK

ElenadeClermont · 10/04/2019 11:05

Recently DH puts on Newsnight in the evenings in the vain hope that we get to find out what is going on.
Emily Maitlis's withering assessment of the daily "events" are a sight to watch. She did not think taking back control meant beghing and our whole future being entirely decided by the EU.

bellinisurge · 10/04/2019 11:07

I don't expect any apologies. They know what they have done.
Anyway self delusion will ensure that everyone else is to blame.

LonelyTiredandLow · 10/04/2019 11:07

We do have to remember the rest of the country is usually a little behind on Brexit compared to these threads! I've already tied a bow on 'The Death of Brexit' and am off to frolic in the sunshine with dd.

I'm sure when I get back TM will have pushed the red button for No Deal or something equally as insane Grin.

I shouldn't joke!

Hearhere · 10/04/2019 11:11

Hello everyone😊 I am new to these threads, I plan to mostly lurk and learn and I hope to make contributions once I'm up to speed.😊

DGRossetti · 10/04/2019 11:11

^The best we could hope for is Truth and Reconciliation commission.
Andrew Adonis, though, on the latest 'The European' podcast talked about the paper trails civil servants are getting in order for potential trials.^

You know how the Leave vote actually happened ? It happened because enough people talked about it enough times in enough places that it seeped into the national consciousness as something which "had to happen".

On that note, maybe the same approach could be taken towards a Truth and Reconciliation inquiry. Just talk about it like it's something which has to happen until it does.

Being adult, I'm not calling for heads on spikes. But a clear, unambiguous examination of where things were not played by the book is a start.

After McPherson, and Leveson I'm guessing the presiding Judge needs to have a name ending in "-son". Maybe we can start looking now ?

Letterkennie · 10/04/2019 11:15

So, is this the accurate summary for the current situ for those of us who are a bit hard of thinking? (Well me, basically!)

  • EU will give long and flexible extension, not short shitty one, in the hope that Britain gets it together a bit
  • We do the European Elections but no one really knows what for.
  • TM chucks in her job and some gallant Toryboy steps up to sort it all out
  • we have another GE (assuming anyone except Farage can draft a manifesto)
  • hung parliament, second referendum.

Is that about right, d’you reckon?

Or will I nip to Lidl and stock up on bog roll for if it goes No Deal shit shape?

RemoaningMyrtle · 10/04/2019 11:18

I do think Katya Adler has been much more balanced than Laura K throughout this, and explains things extremely well. She was spot on last time - in terms of saying that the EU might choose an alternative, as they did

Katya Adler is excellent. She said on R4 this morning that the EU will blink tonight.

LonelyTiredandLow · 10/04/2019 11:19

Yes the Reconciliation is what will be the hardest and lonest - Brexit was a non-starter and took us 3+ years to stop. The mentality behind it is deep rooted. Needs a whole chapter to itself and emnity from the divisions will be going on for many years, even if Brexit isn't spoken about, particularly with regard to trusting politicians.

prettybird · 10/04/2019 11:19

Cameron's Clusterfuck Catastrophe. Wink

He got us into this clusterfuck, making the catastrophic assumption that the LibDems holding the balance of power would save him from his own party Hmm and then buggered off Angry

LonelyTiredandLow · 10/04/2019 11:20

DGR as long as Boris doesn't retrain Shock Wink
Anon!

usuallydormant · 10/04/2019 11:22

*Remain and Lead' message is extremely UK-centric

Doesn't part of the domestic message have to be U.K. centric for some of the market here?

We don't have to wholly mean it.*

Us Europeans do see your messages too lonelymum 😊 I have to say, I find the whole lead not leave thing incredibly arrogant and I think it goes down very badly. Brits are going to have to eat humble pie for a long time as the curtain has been well and truly pulled back.

In a similar vein, the Best for Britain video for the march was totally tone deaf: totally focused on a section of the British public and rooted in the past.

twitter.com/i/status/1109235793573412864
One of the lessons I think should be learned from the last few years is that you can’t have one message for domestic consumption and then a totally different and contradictory one for your international partners. We can see and feel the tension. I can understand exactly why the PV campaign devised this video but watching it as a European, I just think FFS. More WW2 and football. No mention of why you want to be in the club, of what Europe means, just more pandering to the past and no looking to the future. I have to say it really gave me negative feelings towards the PV campaign.

Fintan O’Toole has written (another) great piece on Englishness today and discusses the Olympics, which I know for many of you is a highlight of positive patriotism. But for many of us on the outside, it was totally insular. Between that, and the insistence of calling the UK team Team GB (i.e. forgetting about NI), I have never seen it as a great example of global Britain but very in line with a lot of Brexit narratives.

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-english-self-mockery-has-gone-beyond-a-joke-1.3853487

It’s a question that English people often bring up in conversation: how did we go from that to this? How do you get from the joyously quirky celebration of Britishness in Danny Boyle’s brilliantly choreographed spectacle to the rage and sourness of Brexit in less than four years? The question is freighted with sorrow and bafflement. July 2012 and June 2016 seem to belong to different epochs and to different cultural universes. But perhaps we cannot quite understand what is happening to our neighbour if we do not allow for the fact that the gulf is not quite as great as it seems. Perhaps the self-mockery of 2012 is also, in another guise, the spectacle of a country making a mockery of itself after 2016….

In the updated 2014 edition of her classic book Watching the English, the social anthropologist Kate Fox astutely noted that the thing that made the 2012 Olympic ceremony so delightful was its essential haughtiness – not giving a damn whether the global audience of billions got any of the jokes: “The majority of English people loved it, and didn’t much care whether the rest of the world understood it or not. In fact, many were probably secretly pleased that they didn’t. The degree of self-mockery, self-denigration, obscure self-reference and self-indulgent eccentricity exhibited in that ceremony required a breathtaking disregard for the opinion of others – in this case billions of others – which can only stem from a deep sense of superiority.”

(by the way Fintan can also be incredibly scathing about the Irish, he’s great on culture and nationalism in general, even if most of the articles you may see are centred on Brexit)

I believe your messaging has to be based on truths and although you may tailor for audiences, the central truths and essence must be there if they are to be seen as credible, not just domestically but abroad. Otherwise, you will never be able to deliver on your promises and outsiders will see through you.

On the EU Parliament, it is the only vote I really have as an immigrant Irish citizen in France so I am very enthusiastic about them Grin When choosing who to vote for, also look at the groups they sit / will sit with in the EU as this might align better with your values that the traditional UK groupings.

www.europarl.europa.eu/about-parliament/en/organisation-and-rules/organisation/political-groups

Apologies for the essay, I don’t get time to post/react much but really value this thread and the wonderful range of posters…

prettybird · 10/04/2019 11:27

Welcome hearhere SmileFlowers

Constructive contributions backed up with facts or links are always welcomed Smile

Iambuffy · 10/04/2019 11:34

I'm having a very shitty day so I'm staying away from brexit news.
i can only take so much in one day.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2019 11:39

Confirmation of EP elections - unless we Brexit before 23 May for some unlikely reason
e.g. May refuses extension conditions or is pushed falls under a bus

Faisal Islamm@faisalislam*

NEW: the official Order that means it is now the law that the European Parliamentary elections take place on the 23rd May 2019

  • made by Lidington under the not yet actually repealed section 4 European Parliamentary Electuons Act 2002
.....-. The Day of Poll Order signed on Monday, has just come in to force - the EP elections will happen on 23/5 in law.

Only EU leaders ripping up draft agreement tonight leading to no deal Friday
or passing Withdrawal Deal
can stop them now.

HazardGhost · 10/04/2019 11:40

Iambuffy Gin I know it's early but it sounds like you need it..

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2019 11:41

Bruno Waterfield@BrunoBrussels

A lot of the noise on good behaviour is for domestic consumption < EU >

Westminstenders: The gall of the french
Littlespaces · 10/04/2019 11:46

I've noticed that nasty personal attacks towards ordinary polite 'Remain' posts are increasing every day on twitter and social media.

Insults, swearing, name calling and slurs.

Littlespaces · 10/04/2019 11:46

The tabloids are horrendous today as well.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2019 11:49

Six Phases of a big project

We're in Phases 4 & 5, but 3 is continuing as well:

1.Enthusiasm,

  1. Disillusionment,
  2. Panic and hysteria,
  3. Hunt for the guilty,
  4. Punishment of the innocent, and
  5. Reward for the uninvolved.
lonelyplanetmum · 10/04/2019 11:55

On that note, maybe the same approach could be taken towards a Truth and Reconciliation inquiry. Just talk about it like it's something which has to happen until it does.

I think this is very true. For e.g. If everyone highlights tensions and talks about the ERG splitting enough then they will. Also the truth and reconciliation committee.

The petitions for an enquiry are growing albeit slowly.

In fact there are a lot of petitions to consider...

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241848

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/250178

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/239406

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/242385

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/245297

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/235138

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/232984

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/235954

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/245488

DGRossetti · 10/04/2019 11:57

I've noticed that nasty personal attacks towards ordinary polite 'Remain' posts are increasing every day on twitter and social media.

Gandhi ?