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Brexit

Westminstenders: The gall of the french

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2019 22:04

We are full steam ahead with European Parliamentary Elections! Something that seemed unthinkable a few weeks ago.

May still remains adament that they will not happen, but the die has been cast.

May is off to beg Macron and Merkel to back an extension but the French are already stating they want assurances we won't screw thing up for everyone else.

May still is pushing for a deal with Corbyn and a Not a compromise.

Still there is no sign of a breakthrough either for an extension nor over a cross party deal. It drags on, but at least no one has mentioned the WA for ten minutes.

We might yet be in Europe for another Eurovision. Psychologically this feels important.

The ERG are not happy.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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DGRossetti · 10/04/2019 10:05

"It's not going to happen, is it ?"

Was a sentiment about the whole Brexit project. In hindsight there was one shot and one shot only and that was March 29th.

Now we are sliding into delays being openly discussed and the detractors are becoming more comic in their impotence - and making mistakes like the JRM "look at all the influence we have to mess things up" reverse-ferret tweet. (Which is all the more amusing for being pretty wide of the mark anyway Grin).

The EP elections have been legislated for and candidates put on alert. This means that both Tories and Labour are going to have to field candidates whose "vote for me" spiel has to sell the EU to the electorate.

Having the local elections whilst still in the EU was never meant to happen, either.

Also, the extension to December has "room for a referendum" written all over it, which is no mistake. And I suspect there will be loud voices behind the decision just in case anyone misses "the clue".

The reporting in the past 2 days - even from the BBC - has also been devastating for the true Brexiteers (the ones stupid enough to bet on March 29th). How can anyone sell what's happening now as "what you voted for" ? Yes, there's blame all around, and scapegoats to find. But the bottom line is what is happening is something most Brexiteers assured us could never happen. Like the unsinkable Titanic, Brexit is sinking.

PestyMachtubernahme · 10/04/2019 10:11

DGR The bleach topped one always did say Brexit would be a Titanic success. Grin

Now the press just needs to soften the blow of the inevitable happening (but, it won't happen until after the EU elections).

DGRossetti · 10/04/2019 10:11

A really canny Prime Minister would revoke and spin the upcoming EP elections as a triumph for Britain as we force the undemocractic (© Book of Brexit Chapter 1 verse 2) EU to allow us to hold elections.

Yes, I really do believe there are enough Leavers that would believe that and count it as a win that we can all go back to work on Monday.

Then just spaff a few quid to a graduate program in Brussels to dream up the odd EU initiative that Britain can take great publicity in vetoing every now and then.

Trebles all round !

LonelyTiredandLow · 10/04/2019 10:12

There must be some extensive costings going on that showed a 3 year period to allow the public to change their mind, despite loss of business, workers and international kudos was worth it if it meant the country was more firmly behind being in the EU. I can imagine that being one of the first things the CS did...

I think it is since Op Yellow Hammer came out we've noticed a drip drip of change of public opinion. Project Fear only works for distant future events (like EU Army Hmm ) not when you can see NHS loosing staff, businesses leaving and cost of food increasing as well as seeing your country feature in global comedy sketches for all the wrong reasons

DGRossetti · 10/04/2019 10:15

SO...if Brexit doesn't happen and we've suffered global humiliation, lost lovely workers and friends abroad, lost business, lost power within EU, broken democracy etc for nothing...what will this period in history be called?

The 70s revival ?

Mistigri · 10/04/2019 10:19

From Belfastlive.co.uk

Fears are growing dissident republicans are using stolen cash from ATM raids to build up a war chest in preparation for Brexit.
^It is believed the gang responsible for some of the 12 robberies in Northern Ireland and the Republic since October has netted £603,000.

A senior Provisional IRA source told the Daily Mirror the dissidents are involved and will use the cash to buy arms and explosives.
They plan to be ready to take advantage of the chaos caused by Brexit to mount attacks on any border posts erected on the frontier.^

PestyMachtubernahme · 10/04/2019 10:19

Nick Boles MP
The truth hurts. I voted for Brexit to take place on 29th March - twice - and 12th April - once! The high priests of hard Brexit voted against every time. Yet they are the ones who are stamping their feet like small children.

If your MP retweets this, they would like to keep their seat come the general election.
The GE that will come after revoke.
The revoke that will come after the EU elections.
I'm just not sure if removing the whip from the ERGers will come before or after revoke.
Better to be out of office for one term than for one generation.

LonelyTiredandLow · 10/04/2019 10:20

Grin @DGR

I'm sure as a forum we (Red?) can come up with something that will stick and ensure it stays in the history books as a cautionary tale...

DGRossetti · 10/04/2019 10:20

Kiwi take on it. Not pulling any punches.

Hey ! Where's all the Leavers gone ? They used to be all over these threads telling us to suck it up and how they won.

Article in whole ....

i.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/111909319/brexit-lessons-from-britain-now-a-global-laughing-stock

i.stuff.co.nz
Brexit lessons from Britain, now a global laughing stock
Peter Hartcher16:33, Apr 09 2019FacebookTwitterWhats AppRedditEmail
8-9 minutes

OPINION: Now that Brexit is indisputably established as one of the most monumentally stupid pieces of self-inflicted injury by a developed nation this century, other nations are learning key lessons from its mistakes.

The concept behind Britain's decision to leave the European Union was that it would recover its sovereignty.

On the day that Britons voted by 52 per cent to 48 in favour, its main cheerleader, Nigel Farage, declared it "independence day". That was nearly three years ago.

Today the country is a global laughing stock. It's in an interminable dead-end, neither able to move forwards nor back. It's lost investment and jobs, political stability, national credibility and, perhaps worst of all, it's inflicted new anger and division within British society.

READ MORE:

  • Brits living in France could be sent home under Brexit
  • Brexit: May reaches out to Labour, asks EU for delay
  • Brexit's toll: UK economy at weakest since financial crisis

Brexit has been described as a crisis of national identity, a crisis of leadership under Theresa May, a crisis of the Tory party, a crisis of British politics, a crisis of democracy, and a constitutional crisis.

ALASTAIR GRANT/AP

Brexit has been described as a crisis of national identity, a crisis of leadership under Theresa May, a crisis of the Tory party, a crisis of British politics, a crisis of democracy, and a constitutional crisis.

Across the other 27 members of the EU, the main lesson learnt is that it'd be a bad idea to follow Britain out the door. In one country after another, the political parties that were inspired by Brexit have dumped their campaigns.

Two years ago, the French far-right leader Marine Le Pen was demanding a referendum on whether to leave the EU, a Frexit, as was known. Today she speaks of making the EU work better.

Italy's Matteo Salvini of the League ran a right-wing nationalist campaign to reject the EU common currency, the euro, but now, as deputy prime minister, he has stopped using the hashtag #BastaEuro – enough of the euro. The idea is now effectively moribund.

In Austria, the Freedom Party dropped its call for a referendum on dumping the euro and joined a coalition government that favours the status quo

Britain's experience with Brexit has shown the world such pointless ugliness that it has boosted support for the EU to its highest in 35 years. Specifically, according to a Eurobarometer survey last year, two-thirds of Europeans say that their country has benefited from EU membership.

Populists offer emotional appeals that lead to dead ends, just as Nigel Farage led Britain to Brexit.

JEFF SPICER/GETTY

Populists offer emotional appeals that lead to dead ends, just as Nigel Farage led Britain to Brexit.

In Canada, Brexit is being used as an object lesson for secessionists in the French-speaking province of Quebec: "It has given us a picture of what actual attempts to withdraw from a long-established legislative union, as opposed to fantasies, look like," says the National Post's Andrew Coyne.

"In particular, it has permanently discredited once-common claims that secession from Canada would be a quick and relatively painless affair."

This point carries particular force for any Australian thinking of voting for Clive Palmer, who is running candidates across the country for the federal election in a shameless attempted comeback even as his creditors try to recover hundreds of millions from his collapsed Queensland Nickel.
Palmer proposes that North Queensland break away and form a separate, new state.

Ironic, perhaps, for his so-called United Australia Party. Palmer has learnt nothing from Brexit. He is either a buffoon or an irresponsible populist.

And this is the first lesson that Australia, like countries everywhere, should learn from Brexit. Populists offer emotional appeals that lead to dead ends, just as Farage led Britain to Brexit.

Marine Le Pen, seen here with former Donald Trump advisor Steve Bannon, has gone from demanding a 'Frexit' to talk of making the EU work better.

SYLVAIN LEFEVRE/GETTY

Marine Le Pen, seen here with former Donald Trump advisor Steve Bannon, has gone from demanding a 'Frexit' to talk of making the EU work better.

There are many definitions of populism. The one I prefer is that populism offers unworkably simple solutions to complex problems. Palmer is not the only populist on the ballot paper at the federal election. One Nation is another standout. Single-issue parties are no better.

Brexit has been described as a crisis of many types. A crisis of national identity, a crisis of leadership, a crisis of the Tory party, a crisis of British politics, a crisis of democracy, a constitutional crisis, and so on. And you can make a solid case for each of these claims.

But, at its broadest, the Brexit dead end is a crisis of overpoliticisation. That is, every realistic and practical element of the national interest is lost to a self-interested free-for-all, like hyenas preying on the body politic.

The triumph of Farage's populist "Leave" campaign dealt Britain a jolting blow to the head, disorienting the political system and signalling to the politicians that it was time to let their inner hyenas out.

Italian Interior Minister and Vice Premier Matteo Salvini has stopped using the hashtag #BastaEuro – enough of the euro.

CHRISTOPHE ENA/AP

Italian Interior Minister and Vice Premier Matteo Salvini has stopped using the hashtag #BastaEuro – enough of the euro.

Overpoliticisation is not simply where a government can't get its way in an unco-operative parliament. That is standard in a democracy. It will often occur for perfectly legitimate reasons of difference over principle or policy.

As the chaos of the British parliament demonstrates, overpoliticisation is where there is a breakdown of any goodwill or discipline within the parties themselves.

It can't happen in Australia? It already has. In Australia's case, it was not as all-encompassing as Brexit.

Brexit has shown the world such pointless ugliness that it has boosted support for the EU to its highest in 35 years.

FRANK AUGSTEIN/AP

Brexit has shown the world such pointless ugliness that it has boosted support for the EU to its highest in 35 years.

But the pathetic tale of climate change and energy policy in Australia over the last decade is a clear case of overpoliticisation. The net result so far is a policy dead end, where a government of six years is about to go to an election without an energy policy.

Electricity prices have soared, companies are being put out of business, Australia's carbon emissions commitment is in doubt, and the entire power grid is approaching collapse.

As the Australian Energy Market Commission reported last week, "the grid is holding up but only because the energy market operator is intervening on a daily basis to keep the lights on". And this in a country that is an energy superpower.

The triumph of the Leave campaign signalled to the politicians that it was time to let their inner hyenas out.

PEtER SUMMERS/GETTY

The triumph of the Leave campaign signalled to the politicians that it was time to let their inner hyenas out.

This national failure didn't happen because of the routine operation of Australia's political system. First a Labor government, and then Coalition ones, proved unable to cohere around a policy.

The parties fractured within. Labor struck down its own prime minister over an emissions trading system, pitching the Rudd and Gillard governments into a disarray that neither recovered from.

Then it was the Coalition's turn. Even after Malcolm Turnbull got his National Energy Guarantee through the Liberal party room, a revolt detonated the policy and destroyed the prime minister.

Brexit is one of the most monumentally stupid pieces of self-inflicted injury by a developed nation this century.

FrANK AUGSTEIN/AP

Brexit is one of the most monumentally stupid pieces of self-inflicted injury by a developed nation this century.

In the cases of Labor and Liberal, it was a free-for-all, without the party discipline that a Westminster system requires or the goodwill to agree on a compromise. No democracy can function without compromise.

The hyenas fed amid the chaos in a frenzy of self-interest and self-indulgence, and the Australian electorate was disgusted. Labor paid the price, and now it seems the Coalition will pay the same price at next month's election.

Britain's madness is broader, deeper and more intractable, but Australia has shown over the last decade that it, too, is capable of ruinous over-politicisation. No matter how bad the tragi-comedy of Brexit, Australia cannot be smug.

  • Peter Hartcher is the Sydney Morning Herald's international editor.

Sydney Morning Herald

DGRossetti · 10/04/2019 10:23

Farages Folly

?

LonelyTiredandLow · 10/04/2019 10:28

The Populist Partition?
I like using Farage's name next to folly but it sounds a little lighthearted. Unfortunately I don't see History Books putting Farage's Fuck-up as a Chapter heading either...

lonelyplanetmum · 10/04/2019 10:35

Kiwi take on it. Not pulling any punches.

And I remember in the early days of these threads getting into a debate with one leaver who said we should both trade with NZ and model ourselves on them.The debate ended up focussing on timber etc as I recall.

Now NZ are telling us like it is.

PestyMachtubernahme · 10/04/2019 10:36

Maybe we could have a positive spin on this era...
How the rise of the far right in the UK came too late to enable a totally different outcome to WWII

DGRossetti · 10/04/2019 10:38

*Farages Flop"

Farages Failure

Farages Fantasy

(Not) Making plans for Nigel ?

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2019 10:40

Suez II ?

borntobequiet · 10/04/2019 10:41

PM prog played a clip of Arlene Foster bemoaning the fact that Brexit had come to nothing, Evan Davis said "well you had the votes..."

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2019 10:42

"Decline & Fall of the UK"

(If No Deal happens)

BoffinMum · 10/04/2019 10:42

I was thinking of standing, but the boredom of the EU Parliament voting process would absolutely grind me down.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2019 10:43

în which case you'd better not stand for the Westminster Parliament !

LonelyTiredandLow · 10/04/2019 10:44

Farage's Leavers and Omnishambolic Populism
(aka FLOP)

PestyMachtubernahme · 10/04/2019 10:44

'Decline and Fall of the British Empire'
This is just the epilogue where the UK accepts its new place in the world.

LonelyTiredandLow · 10/04/2019 10:48

I can see the subtitles:

  1. How does populism take root: Austerity, cultural shifts and the advent of the internet.
  2. Why people believed Farage: emotional psychology in politics and offer of 'hope'
  3. How did foreign influence fund populism in UK?
  4. What role did the media play?
  5. Further discussions and future lessons on NDA and the governmental responsibility
(etc)
OublietteBravo · 10/04/2019 10:48

Can we call it the Farage Fallacy? Although that does seem to rather let Boris, Gove, JRM et al. off the hook.

woman19 · 10/04/2019 10:49

Nick Ferrari has given up on Brexit.
www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/exasperated-reveals-hes-finally-given-up-brexit/

@IanDunt
There's a lot of this going about all of a sudden.

Wink
DGRossetti · 10/04/2019 10:54

Can we call it the Farage Fallacy? Although that does seem to rather let Boris, Gove, JRM et al. off the hook

That's the nature of history - something I will guarantee Boris knows very well. We only remember Guy Fawkes, for example. And if it wasn't for the recent "Gunpowder" and it's male totty, the Catesbys and Percys would still be on page 2.

Also, if a single man needs to carry Brexit, I think Farage Fits. I'm not saying that anyone with an EU spouse is automatically required to be an EUphile. But he damn well knew much more than some the devastation Brexit would cause to hundreds of thousands of families like his. Which is pretty unforgivable. (It's one of the reasons I have less than zero time for Gisela Stuart ... whose nemesis is hopefully approaching over Leave spending ....)

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