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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension

971 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2019 13:18

If Macron gets his way we have less than a week. And he seems pretty gung ho - convincing Spain and Belgium, when his veto, alone, would be enough

^Everyone talking about the flextensionschlong extension needs to listen to Macron. If he has his way - it's not happening.
Icantreachthepretzels

What has Macron actually said though and what does he actually believe in?

Just after the first extension was given, Macron said that if nothing changed before the 12th that DID NOT necessarily mean no deal ON the 12th itself. He said it could be on a day of the EU's choosing. It was a hint at a stay of execution at least.

In the last 24 hours or so, the noises have been that France favours no deal but wants two weeks for the markets to prepare. That's consistent with Macron's previous comments.

So I think it's fairly reasonable to take this as your baseline minimum. That would put us exiting on around 26th. I don't think we can refuse this minimum simply because we need every possible day we can get.

Indeed Macron apparently said at the last EU summit that he was in favour of an unconditional offer to stay in until 7th May but Merkel disagree not wanting us to exit the day before the EU's day of unity (9th).

So I think its reasonable that staying in until the 7th is very possible, but if Merkel is unhappy for symbolic reasons I think shift to the following week would be a reasonable compromise to Macron. Or it could make the 26th more likely.

Now the question is just how wedded Macron is to a Hardline approach? We know its Tusk and Merkel pushing Flextension because they lived in Eastern Europe at they have personal reasons over it. We know that Merkel only ever raised her voice to Cameron once over a conversation involving putting up borders with free movement. It's her big thing. And for Macron domestically he's made loud noises about the UK going sooner rather than later. He did a big uturn on his initial comments in agreeing to the 12th / 22nd. So there is something of a collision course here one way or another. Someone has to back down. Who will it be?

My suspicion is that privately whilst Macron knows he has to be tough and favours a sharp exit for domestic reasons he also respects Merkel. How he values his relationship with Merkel might be a big consideration as to how far he is prepared to compromise as well as how many others share France's reservations. I think it notable that whilst France has the power of veto, it seems to be trying to get the support of some of the other 26 too. I think it unlikely France would go for a veto if it were in a minority of one simply because that wouldn't be great for EU unity if others think it a high risk to go for only a short extension. So how easy it is to change the minds of others is perhaps more important than France’s position alone. Whilst throwing his weight around might look attractive and tempting to getting a more French centred leading of the EU post Merkel and whilst he might want to crack on with a much more integrated EU, he's not going to starting from a good place if France is resented for its hardline over Brexit. I'd argue that realistically France needs to work with the other 26 to get any reforms and leadership it wants.

Thus any concessions given won't be because Macron has sympathy for the UK, but because it suits his long term agenda in the EU.

Its worth remembering the conclusions of the last summit, in this context, were also of the opinion that we were more or less incapable of looking after ourselves and almost a failed state that needed baby sitting. They clearly think May is incapable. They may well favour a long extension purely on this basis to let Tories, Tory because no deal and a government collapse at the same time might be something they consider to be exceptionally bad and destabilising. And therefore pose something of a security risk to the EU. (France would, perhaps, be most exposed to this in theory). Indeed Alberto Nardelli of BuzzFeed reported yesterday that many felt a short extension was very risky to the EU. That suggests Macron is somewhat on the back foot.

There is also the observation that transition under the WA isn't a whole lot different to an extension. The real only stumbling block is the EP. The term Flextension really only hides this. And No Deal will merely lead to the WA at some point

No Deal just has a dangerous chaos section in the middle.

The French are certainly not convinced of a long extension though (and Tusk has acknowledged this in his push for a long extension. He is taking the French position seriously and is seeking to persuade rather than dismissing as posturing). On the other hand, its also taken seriously by hardline Tories looking to drive a wedge. Jacob Rees-Mogg's tweet about being obstructive in the EU parliament was very firmly aimed at influencing Macron. Arguably this might well have the opposite affect as it goes, as Macron will be smart enough to see it for what it is.

The other consideration in all this is the make up of the European Parliament itself. There are 14 countries who get extra seats. I can't find the full list, but here's nine of them: Denmark, Croatia, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Ireland, Italy, France and Spain. Having more seats is an important thing. And might be influential on what happens.

In Ireland's case it's particularly difficult. Unlike the UK it DOES NOT have a list system.

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
I understand Ireland is a tricky case, because it doesn't have list system.

This means you can't elect four MEPs and then choose top 3 until UK leaves and IE takes fourth seat...becuase if you ran only a 3-seat election you would get different top 3, than if ran 4-seat

Schlong extension with guillotine is something of a practical issue that needs clarification for the Irish; it's not really viable if we aren't committed to staying in for a fixed amount of time, whatever that might be. Exiting at our time of choosing or just having elections and then never taking our seats it's going to stick. I can't see how it will. So that's the exit on 30th June ruled out. Our exit will be something the EU will want to control the date of in some way, even if there is a 'guillotine clause'.

Nick Gutteridge (Sun) thinks a long extension is the most likely option on the balance of probabilities. Peter Foster (Telegraph) is slightly more doubtful and hestitant after hearing the French line. Prior to this he stated: “No deal” risk receded (for now) soon as May indicated Monday night she was open to ‘flextension’ and EU elex. Alberto Nardelli (BuzzFeed) and Katya Adler (BBC) seem to be of a similar mind set to Foster. Gutteridge and Foster have generally been more reliable than British journalists.

The big but to all this is whether May triggers EP elections in the Privy Council before the summit to signal her commitment. If she fails to do it, thinking she can do it after the summit, she won't be taken seriously and I think there is real danger it will revert to the French line.

If nothing else, if I had £100 to bet on whether we are still in the EU next Saturday, I think I'd have to put it on yes we will be. I may be wrong, but despite EU anger and frustration there isn't much to suggest a hard and fast guillotine on the 12th itself.

Will May and the ERG except a long extension? May sounds like she already has. But this is May, and until she takes action, she can't be trusted. Gove is quoted as saying: “It does not matter what the length of the extension that may be offered is. It ends at the point we are out” which seems to be a considered moderate response. Mogg's comments read as a belligerent acceptance of a long extension rather than a total rejection of the idea completely.

So I think if we are offered a long extension, we'll go through all the usual Peter Griffin impersonations and Boris Johnson huffing and puffing that it's a bad thing but it will be sucked up.

Then theres the question of May. She said she'd stay until the next phase. But a date of the 22nd May was also touted. That's probably more what Brexiteers will have their eyes on, than an extension which they will tolerate. It gives them longer to prep for no deal after all. And that ultimately might not be against the interests of the EU either. It just continues the transfer of business to the EU after all.

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prettybird · 08/04/2019 19:45

Scotland has 2 SNP, 2 Labour, 1 Conservative and Sad 1 odious execrable UKIP MEP Angry. He only got in in 2014 (the only elected UKIP representative in Scotland in any capacity, before or since Shock) because the LibDem vote collapsed Sad. If the elections had been after the Indyref, he probably wouldn't have got in and it would either have been 3 SNP or the Green candidate would have got in (as the Scottish Greens also support independence). Smile

I'm looking forward to campaigning: to persuade people just to vote - to show that they are still engaged positively with the EU - and to vote fit anyone but UKIP, so that we can get rid of our shame and once again make Scotland a UKIP free zone Wink (also need need to ensure a Brexit Party free zone Wink). Grin

It's a challenge I am looking forward to! Smile

woman19 · 08/04/2019 19:48

Me too prettybird Smile
As it's the EU elections, and covered by EU law, hopefully there will be less scope for monkey business a la old referendum/opinion poll thingy from way back in 2016.

@faisalislam
NEW: the official Order that means it is now the law that the European Parliamentary elections take place on the 23rd May 2019 - made by Lidington under the not yet actually repealed section 4 European Parliamentary Electuons Act 2002

TalkinPaece · 08/04/2019 19:51

More of the Home Office shooting the country in the feet
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47853438

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 08/04/2019 20:01

Francois looks like Sam Gamgee's grumpy racist uncle

Yes!

Ive been saying this for weeks...well that he looks like an older fatter sam gamgee...but close

Now if i say ' that hobbit guy' dh and ds1 know exactly who i mean

Dockray · 08/04/2019 20:02

DB has one of the syndromes that is named as being likely beneficiaries of medical cannabis. He recently spent 2 weeks in hospital as he went into status and we thought he was going to die. We (and his consulatant) are desperately waiting for approval. DB has been involved in multiple medical trials since he was small- one of the first with a VNS and did the lamotragine trial. We're fully prepared to take the chance at a trial given his condition is so severe.

Calloway · 08/04/2019 20:04

This one made me snigger

Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension
WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 08/04/2019 20:10

pretty also keen to get involved in campaigning. I know I have always voted for MEPs (because I love a good vote and have literally never missed an opportunity) but I’m not too clued up on the proportional nature of the MEP votes.
To get rid of the UKIZp guy do we just tell people to vote for anybody but him (obviously would prefer pro-EU parties!!!)

WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 08/04/2019 20:10

UKIP. Not whatever my phone put there Hmm

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2019 20:13

Well I am pleased and relieved the order for the elections has been done.

It's now highly unlikely we will be no dealing on Friday.

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Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 08/04/2019 20:13

calloway

Hahaahahahahahahahahaaaa

Grin
RedToothBrush · 08/04/2019 20:15

I am relieved. I am getting lower than I'd like in bog roll.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-08/eu-said-closer-to-brexit-delay-deal-as-core-leaders-plan-talks
EU Draws Closer to Deal on Brexit Delay as Core Leaders Plan to Meet

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woman19 · 08/04/2019 20:20

desperately waiting for approval. DB has been involved in multiple medical trials since he was small -Dockray Flowers Hoping he gets the medicine he needs.

woodpigeons · 08/04/2019 20:22

Someone is making massive profits from Sativex.
A 10ml bottle of CBD oil, with most of the THC removed so has gone through more processes, costs as little as £6 from a reputable UK supplier. This should last more than a week.
A bottle of medicinal cannabis (CBD plus THC but regulated to be safe) costs as little as £10 in the Netherlands or the US.
I was looking into it and those were the prices quoted.
I don’t know exactly how much Sativex costs but prescription prices have been given at around £300 a week. Of course it depends how much people are taking but I assume it’s the same as CBD oil where taking too much doesn’t help at all and can cause very bad side effects.

HesterThrale · 08/04/2019 20:24

So if we get a long extension, something worth bearing in mind is that Tusk and Juncker both end their terms of office in November. (Although I think Juncker could have another term?)

I'd hope any replacements would be a little sympathetic to the UK's position. (If, by then, we haven't exhausted all their patience...)

Dockray · 08/04/2019 20:28

Woman19- thank you. We've always done what we can to support research as we know that is the only way that progress will be made. It is so frustrating that the cannabis is being blocked, even for syndromes with proven results, when there are existing drugs with far worse side effects already used.

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 08/04/2019 20:29

@Peston

I am now told by reliable sources that the most likely outcome of the special summit on Wednesday is another kicking of the Brexit can down the road, but only till a bit after the elections for the European Parliament at the end May...so that a potential no-deal Brexit cannot infect these elections, but not so far that all pressure to sort Brexit dissipates...

Littlespaces · 08/04/2019 20:30

An extension is great but won't it just lead to another cliff edge?

Dockray · 08/04/2019 20:31

Oh and DB has taken CBD oil on the recommendation if his consultant. No difference. It is the THC that is considered the key for his condition.

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2019 20:33

Well I will happily take any extension that falls after Eurovision. The rest I can deal with later.

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Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 08/04/2019 20:35

Dd was taking CBD oil and it didn't seem to do much if anything

The one we bought was £60

prettybird · 08/04/2019 20:35

Scooby - pretty much Smile

UKIP got in on "last man standing" as he hadn't actually reached the threshold and the Green candidate was only about 30,000 fewer votes than UKIP, while the SNP and Labour got c30% (but not quite enough to get a 3rd MEP) and 26% respectively (think UKIP got 10% and the Greens were about 8%). Can't remember what % the Tories got - think it was just under 20%. The vote for the LibDems, who'd previously had an MEP, totally collapsed Sad

HazardGhost · 08/04/2019 20:35

Dockray keeping fingers crossed for your DB Flowers you all deserve knighthoods for being so patient.

Horehound · 08/04/2019 20:37

Where does it say the elections will go ahead?

HazardGhost · 08/04/2019 20:42

Medivape CBD is apparently more effective than ingesting oil. If i remember correctly because there's no THC which helps the absorption of the CBD vaping gets the CBD into the capillaries in the lungs which makes it more easily absorbed into the bloodstream... or someit like that.

woodpigeons · 08/04/2019 20:43

Same with me Dockray CBD oil did help at first but then stopped working and stronger oil didn’t do anything.
I was looking at acquiring it elsewhere but it’s too risky even if I could manage to travel, which I can’t.
Imagine the Daily Mail.
Granny stopped at customs with illegal drugs

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