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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension

971 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2019 13:18

If Macron gets his way we have less than a week. And he seems pretty gung ho - convincing Spain and Belgium, when his veto, alone, would be enough

^Everyone talking about the flextensionschlong extension needs to listen to Macron. If he has his way - it's not happening.
Icantreachthepretzels

What has Macron actually said though and what does he actually believe in?

Just after the first extension was given, Macron said that if nothing changed before the 12th that DID NOT necessarily mean no deal ON the 12th itself. He said it could be on a day of the EU's choosing. It was a hint at a stay of execution at least.

In the last 24 hours or so, the noises have been that France favours no deal but wants two weeks for the markets to prepare. That's consistent with Macron's previous comments.

So I think it's fairly reasonable to take this as your baseline minimum. That would put us exiting on around 26th. I don't think we can refuse this minimum simply because we need every possible day we can get.

Indeed Macron apparently said at the last EU summit that he was in favour of an unconditional offer to stay in until 7th May but Merkel disagree not wanting us to exit the day before the EU's day of unity (9th).

So I think its reasonable that staying in until the 7th is very possible, but if Merkel is unhappy for symbolic reasons I think shift to the following week would be a reasonable compromise to Macron. Or it could make the 26th more likely.

Now the question is just how wedded Macron is to a Hardline approach? We know its Tusk and Merkel pushing Flextension because they lived in Eastern Europe at they have personal reasons over it. We know that Merkel only ever raised her voice to Cameron once over a conversation involving putting up borders with free movement. It's her big thing. And for Macron domestically he's made loud noises about the UK going sooner rather than later. He did a big uturn on his initial comments in agreeing to the 12th / 22nd. So there is something of a collision course here one way or another. Someone has to back down. Who will it be?

My suspicion is that privately whilst Macron knows he has to be tough and favours a sharp exit for domestic reasons he also respects Merkel. How he values his relationship with Merkel might be a big consideration as to how far he is prepared to compromise as well as how many others share France's reservations. I think it notable that whilst France has the power of veto, it seems to be trying to get the support of some of the other 26 too. I think it unlikely France would go for a veto if it were in a minority of one simply because that wouldn't be great for EU unity if others think it a high risk to go for only a short extension. So how easy it is to change the minds of others is perhaps more important than France’s position alone. Whilst throwing his weight around might look attractive and tempting to getting a more French centred leading of the EU post Merkel and whilst he might want to crack on with a much more integrated EU, he's not going to starting from a good place if France is resented for its hardline over Brexit. I'd argue that realistically France needs to work with the other 26 to get any reforms and leadership it wants.

Thus any concessions given won't be because Macron has sympathy for the UK, but because it suits his long term agenda in the EU.

Its worth remembering the conclusions of the last summit, in this context, were also of the opinion that we were more or less incapable of looking after ourselves and almost a failed state that needed baby sitting. They clearly think May is incapable. They may well favour a long extension purely on this basis to let Tories, Tory because no deal and a government collapse at the same time might be something they consider to be exceptionally bad and destabilising. And therefore pose something of a security risk to the EU. (France would, perhaps, be most exposed to this in theory). Indeed Alberto Nardelli of BuzzFeed reported yesterday that many felt a short extension was very risky to the EU. That suggests Macron is somewhat on the back foot.

There is also the observation that transition under the WA isn't a whole lot different to an extension. The real only stumbling block is the EP. The term Flextension really only hides this. And No Deal will merely lead to the WA at some point

No Deal just has a dangerous chaos section in the middle.

The French are certainly not convinced of a long extension though (and Tusk has acknowledged this in his push for a long extension. He is taking the French position seriously and is seeking to persuade rather than dismissing as posturing). On the other hand, its also taken seriously by hardline Tories looking to drive a wedge. Jacob Rees-Mogg's tweet about being obstructive in the EU parliament was very firmly aimed at influencing Macron. Arguably this might well have the opposite affect as it goes, as Macron will be smart enough to see it for what it is.

The other consideration in all this is the make up of the European Parliament itself. There are 14 countries who get extra seats. I can't find the full list, but here's nine of them: Denmark, Croatia, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Ireland, Italy, France and Spain. Having more seats is an important thing. And might be influential on what happens.

In Ireland's case it's particularly difficult. Unlike the UK it DOES NOT have a list system.

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
I understand Ireland is a tricky case, because it doesn't have list system.

This means you can't elect four MEPs and then choose top 3 until UK leaves and IE takes fourth seat...becuase if you ran only a 3-seat election you would get different top 3, than if ran 4-seat

Schlong extension with guillotine is something of a practical issue that needs clarification for the Irish; it's not really viable if we aren't committed to staying in for a fixed amount of time, whatever that might be. Exiting at our time of choosing or just having elections and then never taking our seats it's going to stick. I can't see how it will. So that's the exit on 30th June ruled out. Our exit will be something the EU will want to control the date of in some way, even if there is a 'guillotine clause'.

Nick Gutteridge (Sun) thinks a long extension is the most likely option on the balance of probabilities. Peter Foster (Telegraph) is slightly more doubtful and hestitant after hearing the French line. Prior to this he stated: “No deal” risk receded (for now) soon as May indicated Monday night she was open to ‘flextension’ and EU elex. Alberto Nardelli (BuzzFeed) and Katya Adler (BBC) seem to be of a similar mind set to Foster. Gutteridge and Foster have generally been more reliable than British journalists.

The big but to all this is whether May triggers EP elections in the Privy Council before the summit to signal her commitment. If she fails to do it, thinking she can do it after the summit, she won't be taken seriously and I think there is real danger it will revert to the French line.

If nothing else, if I had £100 to bet on whether we are still in the EU next Saturday, I think I'd have to put it on yes we will be. I may be wrong, but despite EU anger and frustration there isn't much to suggest a hard and fast guillotine on the 12th itself.

Will May and the ERG except a long extension? May sounds like she already has. But this is May, and until she takes action, she can't be trusted. Gove is quoted as saying: “It does not matter what the length of the extension that may be offered is. It ends at the point we are out” which seems to be a considered moderate response. Mogg's comments read as a belligerent acceptance of a long extension rather than a total rejection of the idea completely.

So I think if we are offered a long extension, we'll go through all the usual Peter Griffin impersonations and Boris Johnson huffing and puffing that it's a bad thing but it will be sucked up.

Then theres the question of May. She said she'd stay until the next phase. But a date of the 22nd May was also touted. That's probably more what Brexiteers will have their eyes on, than an extension which they will tolerate. It gives them longer to prep for no deal after all. And that ultimately might not be against the interests of the EU either. It just continues the transfer of business to the EU after all.

OP posts:
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HazardGhost · 08/04/2019 17:41

dg skunk/hash/shit is informally known as high levels of THC. 20%+ is quite high imo but i base that off someone like DP who would only need 6% THC to receive medical benefits of CBD (you need some THC to help absorb the CBD for anyone lurking) so incredible weak but that's because higher levels of THC would be risky for someone with DP's diagnosis.

I should add I have not gone round scoring drugs for DP merely researched Grin

TheMShip · 08/04/2019 17:42

We've been naturalized for a while, so paid somewhat lower fees, but two lots of visas with one extension, ILR, then naturalization, we added it up once and it came to over £10K.

woman19 · 08/04/2019 17:43

Interesting, BigChoc and Mistigri. No 'good character' tests for little kids though? ( wonders if Johnson et al would have passed one Wink)
Flowers good luck TiP Smile

GroovieGazelloo · 08/04/2019 17:44

"The Home Office has been accused of using UK-born children of immigrants as “cash cows” by charging extortionate sums for them to obtain citizenship".
That is so disgusting.
Now, would this have been why was I uncomfortable about GB's recent questioning on the Human Rights Act...

woman19 · 08/04/2019 17:44

£10k Shock TheMShip

Mistigri · 08/04/2019 17:45

U.K. charges are an outrage especially for children.

There is a big cultural difference in attitudes. In France, French-born and raised kids are basically considered French both culturally and by the legal system. They just need to do a simple court procedure to get this certified. It's a very dignified and empowering process for the adolescent, who meets with the clerk of court and gives their consent for the change of nationality.

GroovieGazelloo · 08/04/2019 17:45

Good luck TIP.

Mistigri · 08/04/2019 17:46

No 'good character' tests for little kids though

It's not a naturalisation process, so the only test is a simple legal one, ie do you meet the criteria (born in France, 5 years of residence since age 8 - I just got a letter from their schools).

Calloway · 08/04/2019 17:49

@wallaceme
BREAKING: The Conservative Party has opened applications to stand in the European elections 2019.
Email to candidates begins: "Due to the current situation we will be contesting the European Elections on 23rd May 2019 and the closing date for Nominations is 24th April."

TheUser420 · 08/04/2019 17:51

skunk/hash/shit is informally known as high levels of THC. 20%+ is quite high imo but i base that off someone like DP who would only need 6% THC to receive medical benefits of CBD (you need some THC to help absorb the CBD for anyone lurking) so incredible weak but that's because higher levels of THC would be risky for someone with DP's diagnosis.

It all depends what you're trying to treat. Treatment for neuropathy and spacisity associated with MS is completely different to treatment for epilepsy, for example. Uses for an anti-emetic are completely different. Cancer treatments - again - different composition.

The UK is a world leader in medical cannabis research and knowledge. Just not the sort the Daily Mail likes. Although if we're not careful, the US will drain all our experts ...

woman19 · 08/04/2019 17:54

Wee Mr Francois is not going to be happy....

Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension
67chevvyimpala · 08/04/2019 17:56

Who can stand and as an mep?

HazardGhost · 08/04/2019 17:57

chev YOU....?

67chevvyimpala · 08/04/2019 17:58

Don't tempt me...

DGRossetti · 08/04/2019 17:59

Imagine having an accumulator on (a) not leaving on 29th feeding into (b) entering the EP elections ....

woman19 · 08/04/2019 18:00

Year's membership of political party, I think Chevvy
I am going to campaign for the pro EU with the best chance. Smile
www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/163523/EPE-Part-1-Can-you-stand-for-election.pdf

Dontlickthetrolley · 08/04/2019 18:03

I would imagine the age 10 good character is not having a criminal record.

67chevvyimpala · 08/04/2019 18:04

If I had a spare £5k I'd do it

MockerstheFeManist · 08/04/2019 18:09

Farage is on an OFCOM charge after on his LBC show saying, "Well, I think Jon Snow should be attacked without doubt..."

(C4 News bod, not the King of the North)

Farage (much) later explained, of course he only meant verbally attacked.

TheMShip · 08/04/2019 18:13

Haha picturing Farage yelling "You know nothing Jon Snow!" over and over...

MockerstheFeManist · 08/04/2019 18:14

Well Littlefinger's dead so they need a slimy greaseball.

vanitythynameisnotwoman · 08/04/2019 18:15

Sorry, the last thing I want is to cause distress or another disagreement.

I guess - many of the drugs I hand out day in day out are plants, but at least I know who aspirin is dangerous for, and the risks of major harm.

The legalising issue is the problem, isn't it, if this were a "new drug" - which it is to prescribers though I get it that it isn't to people around the world - then it would take a minimum of 10 years, often far more, from discovery to licensing with standard trials. And those who are doing the prescribing are usually involved in the trials (in teaching hospitals at a minimum) and get used to these drugs.

Thankfully - because of my own health problems, which include leg injuries with neuropathic pain/ME/Crohn's as the short list - I'm not on the specialist register and won't therefore be able to anyway (...but I can prescribe chemotherapy... go figure?!)

horseshit · 08/04/2019 18:15

George Court @ courty1793

Parties on the ballot in English regions

Brexit:

The Conservative Party
The European Research Group
The Group of European Research (the 28 rebels!)
Brexit Party
UKIP
SDP
For Britain
English Democrats

Remain:

Lib Dem’s
Greens
Change UK
Renew

Don’t know:

The Labour Party

How many % does a party need to get a seat?

vanitythynameisnotwoman · 08/04/2019 18:17

Year's membership of political party, I think Chevvy

Does that mean TIG won't be able to have candidates stand??

MissMalice · 08/04/2019 18:20

My slimy toad of an MP replied -

“I did not agree with any of the inferior options put forward in the indicative votes exercises and voted against them, but kept no deal on the table as it is inevitably the default position.”

Clearly not the point of indicative votes and conveniently forgetting that he emailed some time ago to say he was going for the “managed no deal” option (after previously saying he wanted the WA, and has apparently now returned to that view). Ugh.

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