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Brexit
Original poster

Westminstenders: Compromise is a difficult word

989 replies

RedToothBrush · 04/04/2019 19:26

Today the HoC had a water leak. It closed the house for the day. This isn't without consequence; any hope for the opportunity of Indicative Votes on Monday had cold water poured on it.

Meanwhile talks between talks between May and Corbyn were about as productive as you'd imagine. But apparently they had nice tea and biscuits.

The Cooper Bill, the last minute lock on May getting a extension to prevent no deal, has been in the Lords today. I say it's been in the Lords but Tories have filibuster Ed on procedure for over 6 hours to prevent the chance of it passing the house. Tory whips are timetabled until 6am but the opposition benches have vowed to go to 7.30am. So far the votes to ruin the procedure have failed comfortably so the opposition have the number. Its just a question of time.

The trouble is with the Lords not sitting tomorrow that means the bill won't get passed until Monday and there are fears it won't get royal assent until Tuesday.

The bill doesn't prevent accidental no deal but it would be a barrier to May.

It therefore looks like May's gambit with the EU to get an extension is to say her plan is ongoing talks with Labour for a cross party solution. It won't wash.

No deal looks more and more likely.

OP posts:
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FusionChefGeoff · 05/04/2019 15:46

My Lithuanian friend (well she's my cleaner but that just sounded too mc for words so I had to change it) always asks me what's going on. I would have thought she'd be following closer but I'm happy to help!

DGRossetti · 05/04/2019 15:48

if PR is the price then next time round 7% UKIP produces a fair number of UKIP MPs.

And why not ? That's how democracy works, surely. And having gained c. 7% of the seats, UKIP would then be in a position to deliver on their rhetoric. Or not. But at least they'd lose the lure of the forbidden that FPTP allows any minority party to claim.

I'm totally in agreement that the UKs electoral system is long past it's use-by date, and is now an impediment, not a reinforcement to democracy.

StripeyChina · 05/04/2019 15:49

Sorry but can I ask the Maths bods (as I know nothing)
I have a 13 yr old - dyslexic and ASD. He has been trying to talk to me about string theory / gravity / Alyth null (?) etc since he was small. He see patterns in nature everywhere and talks about time and relativity but struggles with Algebra and his mental maths' (esp times tables) is awful. He has now written himself off as 'rubbish at Maths, I'll never get an O level'. Is there hope? His school is poor. Where can I steer him?

StripeyChina · 05/04/2019 15:53

Oh ScoobyDoo!!
I did the same with my friend (ex Treasury and JRM alike) re Cambridge Analytica from these threads. He dismissed it as it had not come from his enormous brain. I pointed it out when it hit the news. Repeatedly Grin 'Twas such fun Grin

OhYouBadBadKitten · 05/04/2019 15:54

aleph null?
I'll pm you Stripey.

CordeliaEarhart · 05/04/2019 15:54

7% UKIP produces a fair number of UKIP MPs

Which would be fair as currently the views of 7% of the UK population aren't represented in parliament. I don't like what they stand for, but their supporters have just as much right to representation as I have.

dontcallmelen · 05/04/2019 15:58

pretty happy birthday🎂 Just poor dog hopefully recovery will be swift💐

prettybird · 05/04/2019 15:58

Red - one of dh's less endearing attributes is that he claims he's always right because he says he won't state something unless he knows it to be true Hmm

And if I say something and he then says something different, and I then try to defend my original statement, I am the one contradicting him and "always disagreeing with him for the sake of it" Confused

(He's not so "d" a dh when he's on one of those rants!)

howabout · 05/04/2019 16:01

Problem with simultaneously delivering PR and IndyRef, SNP would demand IndyRef on 50/60 Scottish seat share. Their actual Scottish vote share would likely only be 35 - 40%.

howabout · 05/04/2019 16:02

Krishnan Guru-Murthy:"Whether or not it ever happens just suppose Corbyn-May talks produced a second referendum and Remain won but with under 17.4 million votes (because turnout was lower than last time) would it be right to remain?"

The80sweregreat · 05/04/2019 16:02

I wonder how many of the ERG will deflect to UKIP now, especially if this is on the back burner for another year maybe.
I bet a lot of them don't.

dreichuplands · 05/04/2019 16:02

stripey other maths types will be able to help you more but you can do one thing that my dad did a lot of saying, "you can do maths, all sorts of it, just not arithmetic" he usually followed this with, "it's not the most interesting part of maths anyway". He focused on all the maths I could do which made be feel calmer about the bits I couldn't like times tables.

havingtochangeusernameagain · 05/04/2019 16:03

Yes because it's the % of who votes.

Cherrypi · 05/04/2019 16:04

Think of all the amazing creative mathematicians we lose in this country because they don't have a good memory for arithmetic and are turned off as children.

The political party podcast was interesting this week. They interviewed Nick Boles. He didn't know he was going to quit the Conservative party as he stood up.

lonelyplanetmum · 05/04/2019 16:04

pretty happy birthday🎂

their supporters have just as much right to representation as I have.

I definitely think that UKIP is better out in the open.It is better the devil you know etc, I'd like to see them exposed by trying to do a job which addresses health, education,welafre, etc etc rather than just harping on about one poorly researched and misunderstood immigration obsession.

I think I have authoritarian tendencies too, as some of the more BNP types I have trouble really thinking that they have an equal right to representation.What about the Ku Klux Klan..do they?

havingtochangeusernameagain · 05/04/2019 16:04

(that to K G-M's tweet)

Icantreachthepretzels · 05/04/2019 16:04

"Whether or not it ever happens just suppose Corbyn-May talks produced a second referendum and Remain won but with under 17.4 million votes (because turnout was lower than last time) would it be right to remain?"

Yes - because those that don't turn out don't get a say. Hence why we talk about 52% and not the more accurate 37%. Those that didn't vote don't get counted. Simple.

howabout · 05/04/2019 16:05

My DH doesn't care whether or not he is right. He is the master of the Gallic shrug.

havingtochangeusernameagain · 05/04/2019 16:06

I wouldn't like seeing UKIP MPs but PR would give us more Green MPs too. It's swings and roundabouts.

And coalition governments aren't that bad. Despite the tuition fees debacle, the Libdems kept the Tories in check during the coalition. How much became clear afterwards. I would say they didn't keep them in check enough, but I have to say, you realised very shortly after the GE in 2015 that they had done some good.

DGRossetti · 05/04/2019 16:07

I wonder how many of the ERG will deflect to UKIP now, especially if this is on the back burner for another year maybe. I bet a lot of them don't.

+1

They need the cloak of respectability that the Torys have. The blue-rinse Tories that worship Churchill would be horrified if they heard a JRM speech word-for-word from a UKIP candidate.

I guess ultimately it's the cowardice of Brexiteers which has caused me (and possibly John Major) to despise them so much. They know their EU views are pretty unpalatable to most people (that care, and totally irrelevant to even more than don't). So they sneaked in under cloak of blue, and subverted the Tories from within. Probably having studied the 1980s and "Militant" closer than they'd be willing to admit in public.

Is JRM a Derek Hatton des nos jours is a question that almost nobody is asking Grin

The80sweregreat · 05/04/2019 16:08

To be fair to UKIP , i have heard of some other policies they have apart from the obvious - education was mentioned at the last election and the NHS, but my memory of what was said is a bit vague. I think that they endorsed more specialist schools for children with learning difficulties as i did see a thread about it on mumsnet. I would never vote for them at all, but a few good policies thrown in might persuade some to vote for them even more. I'm hoping they wont bother standing at all after all this.

howabout · 05/04/2019 16:10

ERGers won't even vote No Confidence in TM's Govt, not that Heidi and co will either, so don't see them defecting.

LouiseCollins28 · 05/04/2019 16:10

What K G-M is suggesting is a second referendum where the result will overturn the first, that's explicit in his scenario. Obvs that's one of the principal reasons why Leave voters won't like it.

Its not about "confirmation" its about "changing the result"

That said, if it happened and Remain won, then they'd have won, simple as.

The80sweregreat · 05/04/2019 16:11

DG, you could argue the same things for Labour though,. My parents were labour through and through, but they were not keen on Micheal Foot or J C as they saw them as ' reds under the bed'.
still voted for them as their labour MP is fabulous and has a big majority, but they were still worried about who hangs on the coat tail.
no party is perfect.

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