Westminstenders: Compromise is a difficult word

[RedToothBrush]

Today the HoC had a water leak. It closed the house for the day. This isn't without consequence; any hope for the opportunity of Indicative Votes on Monday had cold water poured on it.

Meanwhile talks between talks between May and Corbyn were about as productive as you'd imagine. But apparently they had nice tea and biscuits.

The Cooper Bill, the last minute lock on May getting a extension to prevent no deal, has been in the Lords today. I say it's been in the Lords but Tories have filibuster Ed on procedure for over 6 hours to prevent the chance of it passing the house. Tory whips are timetabled until 6am but the opposition benches have vowed to go to 7.30am. So far the votes to ruin the procedure have failed comfortably so the opposition have the number. Its just a question of time.

The trouble is with the Lords not sitting tomorrow that means the bill won't get passed until Monday and there are fears it won't get royal assent until Tuesday.

The bill doesn't prevent accidental no deal but it would be a barrier to May.

It therefore looks like May's gambit with the EU to get an extension is to say her plan is ongoing talks with Labour for a cross party solution. It won't wash.

No deal looks more and more likely.

@belfastbloke Brexiters have deliberately twisted that statement on avoiding a hard border

What the EU mean is trying to avoid customs posts on the border - just as they would in the backstop

Their plan is likely to be much the same as what they proposes for the GB / NI border in the backstop

Maybe something like this:

• Pre-certification & inspection required for goods in NI, put into sealed vehicles until reaching RoI destination

• Irish Customs / Border officials performing checks on only the main roads that could carry goods vehicles from NI
  Accept there will be increased smuggling, but concentrate on traffic by legal firms

• BIPs (Border Inspection Posts) that have to be within about 20 km from the border

• All Irish firms using any GB or NI product whatsoever in its supply chain having a lot of extra checks and certifications

• obvious medium term process is for the Irish govt and consumers to strongly discourage any Irish firm from doing this, at least re products from GB

@Running as in kids who will be in Y4 next year?
Dd is dyslexic and really struggling with tables despite being in the top 5 in her class at maths . We've had a horrid couple of months where her confidence has plummeted in English (despite surprisingly good test results) and maths is her favourite subject. Please please don't let them kill it for her .

It's diversion but if anyone else has kids trying to learn tables we've found quite helpful (although you tend to end up with the song in your head unless you have the numbers written down in front of you as well - we found!).

@littlespaces
I was working from the basis that being in a customs union was better than being outside of it, not comparing it to being in the EU. For those who export goods to the EU being in a customs union will make this easier as I understand it.

I agree if you are subject to rules it is better to set them but in order for that to work from my POV you'd have to be very confident that the rules are being set in your interests and not other people's. From my POV levying a common external tariff on goods produced outside the EU is a supra national body being protectionist, when it shouldn't be.

Nonetheless, in the situation we are in it would appear that to get a Brexit deal that commands wider parliamentary and public support, everyone has to give a bit, and this is something I am prepared to give ground on.

I agree if you are subject to rules it is better to set them but in order for that to work from my POV you'd have to be very confident that the rules are being set in your interests and not other people's.

The corollary to that is that you can be 100% confident that the rules are being set in other people's interest if you are not involved in setting them at all.

Thanks for explaining.

My guess is that if we end up with some sort of Customs Union it will be a half way house that doesn't work very well long term. My expectation would be that younger generations will seek to re-join.

A lot of the learners I meet have had their confidence destroyed by the way they were taught Maths in school, because of problems already outlined by others. I can't imagine what having to do a timed times table test on a computer would do to them. Well actually I can, and it's not nice.
Instead of inflicting this torture on children, sufficient investment to ensure that children were taught Maths by properly qualified teachers, and had one rather than a succession of supply teachers, especially in Y10 and Y11would be a better idea. My learners complain bitterly about "Never having had a proper teacher", especially at GCSE.

@runningintothesunset it is infinitely better than how we had to learn the timestable at age 6 standing up in front of whole class to recite them. If you got it wrong it was ruler across your knuckles and a dunces hat standing in the corner at the front of the classroom. I still know my times tables front back and sideways at age 65 but haven't a clue how to do the maths of today.

@LonelyTiredandLow it’s voluntary for year 4 children this year but will be compulsory for all children who are in year 4 at June 2020

This was the original announcement I think... www.gov.uk/government/news/multiplication-tables-check-trials-to-begin-in-schools

Our school has started using the app timestablesrockstars to try and get children used to the time pressure element of it in a “fun” way.

True.

Since those rules relate to a relatively small proportion of our economic activity, I am prepared to accept still being subject to them. This is a point I can compromise on.

There are other things about Brexit that I value more, where I would be less willing to see compromises made. I am trying to be helpful.

What are the other things you value more?

Woman - Gove is "only" 51, so may have been on the cusp of the change in teaching techniques. He might be feeling bitter about the fact that he could have been good at "numbers" via rote learning but wasn't able to show off even though he didn't understand the mathematical principles . (See also his comments to the need for all schools to be "above average" )

DGR - I thought the combined photo of May and Corbyn was bad enough yesterday but I can never unseen that piccy you have posted. So thanks for that

I read a lot of forums ....

If this condition really can be made legally binding,
it would scupper JRM's cunning plan and greatly boost UK chances for an extension.

(JRM's idea isn't new - I read it on posts by some Brexit Ultras while the ECJ decision on unlitarela revocation was ongoing.)

Bruno Waterfieldd@BrunoBrussels*

Extension will be “conditional on loyal membership obligations”

This is a condition that Britain does obstruct EU decision making

by giving a commitment the government will always vote along with the majority of other member states on key decisions, budget/trade

A computerised test in year 4? what could possibly go wrong there? - I.C.T provision in all primary schools across the country is so very excellent. In no way are any schools working with 30 crappy, decade old laptops that refuse to switch on half the time or spend an entire I.C.T session 'updating'

I remember doing logarithms in primary school with no calculator. My dgd only started logarithms in year 10 I think with the aid of a calculator.

They really don't trust us one little bit. Don't blame them as they can see a return of Farage & co.

The more the meetings go on the more I'm worrying that what they come up with is even a bigger pile if s*!

@Louisecollins28 The "+" bit in CU+ is copying all the trade-related regulations from the SIngle market

• but NOT the FOM -

in order to make trade as frictionless as possible

It can't be totally frictionless without full SM membership with SM, but it would be disastrous for manufacturing, farming etc if we have the 15-130 hours typical wait that Turkey has - they have only a CU with the EU

This is why we need the backstop - it puts NI at least fully in the SM, so that goods trade is totally frictionless, as required there

With any trade deal with any country or bloc, e.g. the US too, the exporting country has to follow all the trade rules of the country to which it is exporting
so I think the "+" is a pretty normal requirement and sensible for the GB mainland

At least the DC aren't tested till age 9 on time stables and not 6 like us lot in the 50s ( ducks as someone throws blackboard rubber at me)

I have a feeling we won't ever leave fully but it will just go on and on as it's done for 40 odd years and tear all the parties apart.
My prediction ( for what it's worth)

prettybird the children I taught in primary school will be well in their fifties by now and we were not doing rote learning by then. It was all what we used to call "the loneliness of the long-distance workcard". We sometimes used to do a bit of formal teaching if the head wasn't around. Those classroom doors with windows in worked both ways. 😀

How much will the Newport result affect things ? It torpedoes a few myths that may have held Remainers back ? Will it feed up to Corbyn to give him some leverage ?

Our primary has I pads but the PCs are being removed. Don't know how they will get on unless it can all be done on iPads?

Bigchoc
My position is that I have assumed the backstop is a given in any deal. Don't like it, but it's certainly going to be there so might as well accept it.

To use your example of the US. Yes, in order to export to the UK or the other way around for us to export to the USA the other's rules on terms of trade would need to be followed.

On the "+" bit, it would seem that this could mean lots of different things depending on who you ask/who's in charge.

"alignment" could mean though that we have to follow SM rules in all sorts of areas. EU working time, for example I would not see as a "term of trade."