Westminstenders: Compromise is a difficult word

[RedToothBrush]

Today the HoC had a water leak. It closed the house for the day. This isn't without consequence; any hope for the opportunity of Indicative Votes on Monday had cold water poured on it.

Meanwhile talks between talks between May and Corbyn were about as productive as you'd imagine. But apparently they had nice tea and biscuits.

The Cooper Bill, the last minute lock on May getting a extension to prevent no deal, has been in the Lords today. I say it's been in the Lords but Tories have filibuster Ed on procedure for over 6 hours to prevent the chance of it passing the house. Tory whips are timetabled until 6am but the opposition benches have vowed to go to 7.30am. So far the votes to ruin the procedure have failed comfortably so the opposition have the number. Its just a question of time.

The trouble is with the Lords not sitting tomorrow that means the bill won't get passed until Monday and there are fears it won't get royal assent until Tuesday.

The bill doesn't prevent accidental no deal but it would be a barrier to May.

It therefore looks like May's gambit with the EU to get an extension is to say her plan is ongoing talks with Labour for a cross party solution. It won't wash.

No deal looks more and more likely.

I have a STEM degree and PhD, and work in a technical field where maths is an essential skill which I use almost daily. Yet I’ve never had instant recall on times tables.

I’m afraid I never insisted my DC learnt their times tables (although as I moved them from state school to private school several years ago, no one seems to mind). They are both competent mathematicians.

JC is the plan B I agree totally.
This from Miljah
'......So, personally, I don't fear riots and civil unrest if we revoked A50. Most Leave voters probably wouldn't even notice, given that none that I know (two with degrees!) have any clue, or any interest in following Brexit developments.'..............Didn't realise having a degree meant your opinion is worth more or that having a degree and not having the same opinion as you was detrimental to your intelligence.
I always believe you should take nothing for granted.

I'm not keen on leaving , but I do recall people living abroad and working abroad long before FOM came about. I imagine this topic has been done before but I'm old and remember my old French teacher in 1976 telling us about her 'gap year' over there. She was English. People went on holiday abroad in the 60s and 70s.
It might be more hassle for people but I'm sure people will be able to do these things.
Its just a thought.

.Great post babooshka You put it so well.
What StripeyChina described makes me speechless.

@Otto_English
So Labour has retained Newport West with Remain candidate Ruth Jones. Newport voted overwhelmingly to Leave the EU in 2016. We were told that Labour would be destroyed at the ballot box in its heartlands if it shifted on Brexit. Here's an openly Remain candidate winning the seat.

And another Led by Donkeys for Friday.

...So we have to hold EU Elections, but MEPs don't take their seats until July 1, and we're (cough!) leaving on June 30.

So that means the EU Poll is not an election but more of a sort of a.....

.....Referendum?

James o Brian talking about Jacobs tweet. He is pointing out we did have power in the EU when he has said we haven't in the past.

Oh, nice one ! Yes, a bit of backtracking there Jacob. Not in the exact phrasing, but the tone .... saying "if" can be dangerous, old boy.

If means you accept it as a possible outcome. Your default should have been to roar like the lion you are, and offer your own flesh as a sacrifice before it could happen.

There's probably an award winning, multimillion pound game out the if you could find a way to combing Brexit Reverse Ferrets, plus smartphone app technology and Twitter, Facebook etc.

Sort of "Pokemon No" ?

Anyway I notice talk of Gabapentin. DW has to take this, but we're all stockpiled - helped by the fact that while she has been trying to balance her meds, she carried on collecting them.

Total digression, (hopefully we're all friends) but next Tuesday, BB2:9pm, there's a programme about NHS surgeons. The first they feature also has a story in the Radio Times about him. He's the saint who operated on DW to fit her ITB pump. GOD BLESS THE NHS - the man is a saint.

bravo yep I agree to an extent. My dgd on track for A* in maths at A level a natural mathematician if there is such a thing does not revise hardly for it and does complicated stuff I could never understand yet struggles to tell me 9x8!

While we are watching Brexit Tories treat NHS like a cash cow once more for business over voluntary (and free) blood delivery.

Long time lurker, delurking!

@pollyannaperspective I found this this morning which should answer your questions

www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/why-brexit-delay-is-an-eu-election-nightmare/amp/

If Gove was in a Scottish primary school at similar time to me, we learnt times tables by rote, to 12 times table, forwards and backwards. And grammatical parsing of sentences. Teachers were also equipped with a leather belt, which they used on children (until EU law banned it)

At least some things have improved!

Hasenstein
I hope I am correct and please check but surely as the UK hasn't officially left the EU yet the 'rules' as they were say 3 months ago still stand. I think you said you had 'third party' previous which may not have covered driving in Europe, but a policy that has European driving included normally only 'fails' when the UK actually leaves.

@wheresmymojo
Thanks, I was hoping someone would ask this didn't want to jump in too early and give a leave POV before some others have had their say. I also don't want the opportunity to post about this to be lost by the thread moving on to other things (as they inevitably do)

Obv we don't know what any revised political declaration might say but on the proposal of CU Plus my view, from a Leaver POV, (for the benefit of anyone new) is this:

A customs union is an situation I could accept, I don't like it, I don't like the idea that tariffs are being set for us when we have no input.
However, my understanding is that said tariffs will relate to goods, which are a relatively small proportion of the UK economy atm.
So for me CU = Yes

I think a compromise is needed, I think the Ken Clarke CU proposal is one around which a broader range of MPs and voters could agree.

Now, the tricky bit, "CU+" what's the plus and, is it a "plus" in sentiment terms from a Leaver perspective?

For me, that wholly depends on what the "Plus" means. On Dynamic alignment, how far does this reach and how long does it last?

Will post some more on this later if people are happy to keep talking about it.

Oh, RTB, don't say that... (because if you say it, it's likely to be true)

@Louise yes, but...when we see the dip in economics due to not having our biggest sector supported by FoM with SM are you SURE all of the leavers won't start banging on about how it is all because they were 'forced' to have something that wasn't 'Brexit' and just keep going on and on until we leave the CU? I just see it as a moving target for leavers who want complete annihilation of the status quo.

Whatever happens we know it won't work as well as being in EU, so it does seem leavers going to blame remainers further down the line.

Yes, the CU only applies to goods. No application to services.

I work in financial services (insurance mainly) and actually don't think the lack of passporting rights will impact insurance companies as they've already all set up separate companies in Europe (Luxembourg, Dublin, etc). But of course we lose the tax income and any new roles for that side of the business will be placed outside the UK. I assume banks have done similar.

The + from a Labour perspective is 'dynamic regulatory alignment with the single market' but I need to read up and see if they've explained more about how they see this working and what it would apply to.

The80sweregreat We are old enough to have travelled in Europe before the EU but it was all much more complicated. The first time we took our kids on holiday to France in the early seventies we still had exchange controls and could only take about £80 iirc. We travelled with a lot of tinned food!
DH worked across Europe for a British firm as an IT consultant before the introduction of the Single Market. Afterwards it became much easier to work across borders and their business expanded enormously. People who say "we managed fine before the EU" were probably not in jobs that involved travel.

It's true that some people will never be able to memorise times table sequences and instantly recall answers, though of course it's useful for those who can. It's potentially damaging to make all children do this for two reasons: if they literally can't do it it's not at all helpful and destroys their confidence, and if they can do it, and rely exclusively on it, it may undermine their understanding of multiplication of repeated addition, which can lead to problems later when learning algebra.

www.ianlavery.co.uk/brexit/

Interesting statement above and looks like they are cooking up a fudge.

I find your posts informative Louise. Could I ask a question? What does a Customs Union give you that is better than being in the EU? Surely it would be better to help set the rules?

I'm not keen on leaving , but I do recall people living abroad and working abroad long before FOM came about.

Well, my Mum. Who did a sort of Grand Tour in the early 60s, met my Dad and they moved to England.

These look like useful slides from the EU's own internal working group - haven't had time to read and digest yet...

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/slidesregulatoryy_issues.pdf

From next year all year 4 children will have to do a computerised times table test I think they’ll get 3 seconds to answer each question. Yet more completely unnecessary stress for pupils and teachers

The idea of taking a job which might only last until Dec if you have to quit your current job to do it, is something few have the freedom to do

I don't know about that, all those freelancers and people on zero hour contracts...

But presumably you have to be a party member and have had to have been for two years or something. But if you don't, I'm up for it (on a remain ticket, for the avoidance of doubt, Kippers).

@DaveJonesVoice

The UK has officially turned into that mate who says he’ll sleep on the sofa until he’s got a place to stay, still hasn’t got anywhere and keeps asking for a bit longer.

I do recall people living abroad and working abroad long before FOM came about

Yes when the common market was only 6 countries. Eastern Europe was behind the Iron Curtain. Times have changed.

Nicola Sturgeon tweet:
How strange - isn’t this the same guy who said the UK had no power to do any of these things in the EU and that’s why we had to leave.

Jacob Rees-Mogg
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@JacobReesMogg
If a long extension leaves us stuck in the EU we should be as difficult as possible. We could veto any increase in the budget, obstruct the putative EU army and block Mr Macron’s integrationist schemes.

Guardian live:1030