Westminstenders: Compromise is a difficult word

[RedToothBrush]

Today the HoC had a water leak. It closed the house for the day. This isn't without consequence; any hope for the opportunity of Indicative Votes on Monday had cold water poured on it.

Meanwhile talks between talks between May and Corbyn were about as productive as you'd imagine. But apparently they had nice tea and biscuits.

The Cooper Bill, the last minute lock on May getting a extension to prevent no deal, has been in the Lords today. I say it's been in the Lords but Tories have filibuster Ed on procedure for over 6 hours to prevent the chance of it passing the house. Tory whips are timetabled until 6am but the opposition benches have vowed to go to 7.30am. So far the votes to ruin the procedure have failed comfortably so the opposition have the number. Its just a question of time.

The trouble is with the Lords not sitting tomorrow that means the bill won't get passed until Monday and there are fears it won't get royal assent until Tuesday.

The bill doesn't prevent accidental no deal but it would be a barrier to May.

It therefore looks like May's gambit with the EU to get an extension is to say her plan is ongoing talks with Labour for a cross party solution. It won't wash.

No deal looks more and more likely.

I think they are all playing for time now. the Elections in Europe are looming, so new blood will take over - they can fob off the leavers with any old rubbish, then it will be Easter and a royal baby due soon, then they have their easter breaks etc etc etc, before we know it only Farage and a few ERG MP's will be anywhere still bleating on about it, whilst the normal person will be busy with other things to worry about and declare they are 'sick of it all' anyway.

Parliament's Easter break has been cancelled.

HoC back on Monday, assuming they can find a non-Brexity plumber.

oh, i didnt realise that. i bet they still have a bit of time off though!
just not as long.
i bet a few are fed up about that.

Sif we get past this deadlock hump people will drift off

There’ll be some sport to get excited by, some other drama, no one will hear Brexit means Brexit let me clear the will of the people with a straight face. It’d be great.

They might be able to fix things so we can be distracted - the mail love a royal baby ( even if they are not keen on its mum) , that one must be due soon. then the racing season gets under way, maybe start bigging up the next Andy murray ready for wimbledon. yep, they can think up many ways of putting this off ( if they are clever enough)

This dithering around is pathetic.
'Strong and stable government, my arse', as a well known actor would say.

On the subject of extensions .. in a previous job I ended up with some HR stuff to deal with.

One classic tactical hurdle employees often make when wanting a change to their working hours is to ask for a 'permanent' switch. People generally don't like being boxed in to things for ever.

Eg a valued employee wants to switch to say a three day week in a busy workplace. If the employee says can I try a three day week until the summer, that is more likely to get a yes.If it's working ok then they say let's continue trying it until Christmas etc. What happens is everyone adjusts psychologically then it can morph into a longer term arrangement with less resistance.

It may be inadvertent but successive Art 50 extensions may achieve a similar psychological shift? Anyway we aren't ready so there's not much alternative.

Is the 30 June deadline an attempt to ensure that the MPs get the summer recess? Just wondering...

I'm sure the plimico plumber will offer services!

This has been a very good week. Since Monday, the chance of no-deal happening has declined significantly.

I'm not sure how Ian Dunt worked this out?!

Glad legislation for EP is a privy council offer but can the privy Council refuse? I'm guessing unlikely as it has a pro EU membership.

The EU will not extend to the 30th June. Just because we legislate for EU elections its still not a commitment to go through with them. The last thing the EU want is us to refuse to take part at the last second. And they don't trust May.

Why would the EU move on the offer of a long extension?

I do wonder where the Tory party are going to get EU parliament candidates from. Other parties are not getting many takers. The idea of taking a job which might only last until Dec if you have to quit your current job to do it, is something few have the freedom to do.

Is the 30 June deadline an attempt to ensure that the MPs get the summer recess?

The Tory party want the summer for their leadership contest.

They don't want a long extension as May stays until that's over!!!

I swear TM lives in groundhog day. "I want to extend until June 30th". EU says no, you can have until April 12th/May 22nd.

2 weeks later TM says "I want to extend until June 30th".

It's the same as the WA. She's like a small child who won't accept being told no but wants to wear the parent down so they just give in.

A reporter on BBC just described the filibusting I. The HoC as ' akin to a riot in a morque'

HoL that should read.

Tanith it is ridiculous Gove just imposed a let's do how we did it in my day approach to education.

The times table thing is ridiculous.Learning them is especially difficult for the 10% plus with dyspraxia or dyslexia. Some children's minds just don't sort things in that ordered way. We tried car CDs, posters, printed sheets, maths apps for years. I have now shifted and just say to DD you don't need to learn them rote- I know you can do the specific multiplication in isolation when you need it in a problem and that's fine.

So, meds for neuropathic pain (me), meds for bi-polar (best friend, currently sectioned so let's hope the meds don't run out there?), meds for epilepsy (a good friend, single mum with young kids who is very severely epileptic). The amount of stress being caused to people, the amount of financial damage to the economy, the amount of money being 'spaffed up the wall' (hideous BoJo phrase) because of need to plan for all eventualities because of lack of decision making. Aargh!

I am taking Pregabalin. That and Gabapentin are the two epilepsy drugs also used for nerve pain. There are older drugs that have been tried but they have very bad side effects.
The problem with stockpiling is due to issues in the supply chain, whatever that means.
As they are now controlled drugs people can’t be prescribed more than a month at a time.
I’ve just returned after being ill. Not such good news but hope Juncker can extend his patience to us.

Bugger - MN ate a long post again I really must get into the habit of copying before posting - but as it's an intermittent issue I keep forgetting

Anyway, I went to a training session recently about "re-framing" debates.

After saying that there was no point in debating with facts as most people vote/believe based on values and at a more visceral level.

He suggested that you triage those with whom you are debating.

• Those that are never going to change their mind, no matter what you say. Don't waste time or effort on them.

• Those that are already convinced - don't waste time or effort on them (We are guilty of that on here - but there again, we also use threads to stay sane vent and to share information )

• Those that are not entrenched, who can still change their minds.

He was asked how you could identify the difference between the first and last. He said to ask something like, "It's obviously very important to you - are there any circumstances that might change your mind?" If they say No, I'll be a Brexiter/Unionist/whatever until the day I die , then there's no point engaging. If they say, I'm concerned about x then there is an opening. (He used a better example than that)

He also said to Step Away from the Killer Argument because of the Backfire Effect (so instead of winning, the person you are debating with will fall into the fight/flight/paralysis reaction) and let them process the final steps themselves.

It was based on the work of Prof Lakoff's "Don't think of an elephant: know your values and frame the debate which is now on my reading list It's based on the US scenario - but it applies to the Brexit and Scottish Independence debates as well.

I've got a load of interesting links - but I'll wait until I'm back on to the laptop to post them as I'll have to type them in.

This really is the problem.

Paul Bernal
@PaulbernalUK
It’s not just day-to-day with Theresa May, it’s hour-to-hour. The opposite of strategy.

The only MEP I have links to is Jude Kirkton-Darling who wrote on fb on 2nd April:
"Until MPs decide what happens next, Labour MEPs are getting on with the job we were elected to do: representing our constituents in the EP."
She's still there at any rate!

So yesterday the police told MPs to tone down language:

TODAY:

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/news/103060/PRO-BREXIT-TORY-PEER-WARNS-INSURRECTIONARY
Pro-Brexit Tory peer warns of 'insurrectionary forces' if Leave vote not respected

Dr Charles Tannock @ charlestannock
Am I alone in thinking this is an unacceptable comment from a peer and former Cabinet minister. Brexit has brought out some disturbing statements from those opinion formers who should set an example to others.

A 'Flexstension' of a year seems eminently sensible to me.

Angela Merkel says that the EU will work creatively to ensure there is no hard border in Ireland after Brexit.

Isn't that exactly what the Brexiteers/DUP were suggesting, to remove the backstop from the WA agreement?

If its sensible that's the kiss of death to it!!

StripeyChina Just a quick thanks for your post on the last thread, I am still processing it.

*Kirton-Darling

Well, good luck to all of you engaging with Leavers. I have to say I had glimmers of 'hope' with mine - she now admits we are stockpiling meds for example which two weeks ago was me being paranoid.

I just can't deal with the constant fawning over some kind of national identity that I see as actually being destructive. I've tried, maybe she never was for turning, and maybe I've realised I can do without her venomous asides in my life. Thankfully she's not local any more so that makes things easier. A lot of my friends will be relieved at any rate she wasn't the most exciting person at a party