Westminstenders: For Whom the Bell Tolls

[RedToothBrush]

Although another round of Indicative Votes is scheduled, arguably the chance for a soft Brexit has gone for two reasons.

Parliament was unable to show a majority because those on the opposition benches were too busy saying 'I want this but only on these terms' or still being too unwilling to compromise. Thus the opportunity and point for a third round starts to look weak.

The second is that Tory MPs were resolute in an opposition to a soft Brexit.

Unless May decides to be the next Robert Peel and go for a soft Brexit on the back of opposition vote its not going to happen.

This leaves May's deal as it stands or no deal.

May seems to have actually lost a few supporters of her deal since Friday, and given the performance of the opposition tonight and the prospect of round 3 of indicative votes they will still be unwilling to go for May's deal.

Which leaves no deal.

There is talk of a managed no deal. There is no such thing. The EU plan for that is essentially to push us into the deal in order to get a trading relationship.

And that will push us closer to the us. Which is what many torys want. And what polling seems to suggest they will have surprising support for.

Sorry folks but it don't look great tonight.

The opposition benches may look back on tonight and think they screwed it. I hope I'm wrong. But I fear tonight might have sealed our fate.

Tomorrow may has a 5hr cabinet. And a secret document dmfor the cabinet to study first.

It's going to get bumpy from here on in...

Random Deliberately choosing disaster now makes no sense

I prefer the hope of a future close relationship with the EU to the certain disaster that No Deal causes to that relationship

• and worst case of the WA is at least having a legally binding international treaty with the backstop to protect Ireland and to protect expat rights -

Choosing No Deal is choosing the worst possible option, especially for the poor & those who depend on meds.
And choosing it now, which excludes any possibility of something better in the future

You sound like one of the hardcore Remainers who keep voting against all softer Brexits in the belief that will force May / the govt to Revoke

All that tactic does is make No Deal about 98% certain

14 cabinet ministers back no deal, 10 back CU and 3 are undecided.

Express and mail

I and mirror.
Yes even the mirror tonight has brexit

Delurking to say I am furious at my MP. One of the Labour abstainers for CM2. She tweeted that she was happy at all the votes for a PV.

I tweeted back that there needs to be something on the ballot paper for people to vote for, and that remainer unicorns are just as fictional as the leader's. That CM2 was a good compromise which was just blown.

She has lost my vote

PMK.

I feel utterly depressed tonight.

If No Deal happens, as looks very likely, it will be because the majority of MPs - who are not batshit or even Brexiters - choose to insist on their favourite option and would not compromise

Anyone wanting a PV, who voted against everything else, is either an idiot or horrifyingly ruthless:

It could mean a PV with Remain vs No Deal

The gamble of having No Deal as an option, to scare off soft Leavers, is playing chicken with the electorate
Didn't work for Cameron

If the snp hadn't been immature tonight there would have been a majority for the customs union.
But they decided If they cause chaos people will demand indepence. Yeah cause adding sottish Independence into this mess will really help calm.the situation
I am ashamed to be an snp.voter tonight

14 back no deal!!!

Such a f'ing mess.

I'm in Scotland and I was furious and livid in the previous indicative voting that SNP abstained from the customs union vote.

I understand why.

60+ % voted remain, and every single constituency had a majority vote for remain, so 'representing the constituency' would not be about voting for any Brexit option.

So I was heartened that tonight they did at least vote for the 'Norway' option (and the PV, and the 4th option).

But I'm still massively pissed off that they can't compromise enough to vote for a customs union. Their 35 (or 34) votes would have tipped a big balance. They could have been the 'king makers', they could have negotiated the customs union towards a CM2. They (WE) could have had a big strong voice that shouted out and possibly prevented a hard 'no deal' Brexit.

If we end up with a disastrous no deal outcome, then I (living in Scotland) will blame Nicola for holding too fast to her party principles, when for once, she could have done something to help.

Despite the fact that my personal choice would be to live in an independent Scotland, within the EU, if the above scenario happened I would never, never, again vote SNP. They have 35 votes that they could use, and they have wasted the power.

I now dread the thought of a PV - talking to friends this afternoon, who voted Remain before, now might well vote Leave, just to 'get it over with'. Really? Would they really crash the economy?

DH now more in the Leave camp too. Despite our children decamping to EU countries.

PMK

Quietly despairing.

(And looking for beetroot recipes, thank you woman)

I now dread the thought of a PV - talking to friends this afternoon, who voted Remain before, now might well vote Leave, just to 'get it over with'. Really? Would they really crash the economy?

Anytime anybody ever hears someone say this - please please take the time to explain that, no matter what form leave takes, it is a process which will take years if not decades. And it will take up time in the news and time in parliament for all those years. The only way to 'get it over with' is to remain. It goes away instantly and we never have to hear about it again.

Honestly a PV versus just having No Deal now, minus the divisive of a referendum?

Which would I prefer?

Tough call but I might well just go with no deal (and I'd vote remain in a PV).

I do not think the country can cope with another ref. It would immediately hand too much power to the leave.eu crew. And I think we could still end up out as lessons from 2016 have not been learnt.

And I think No deal would be an utter disaster.

It's a case of whether do I think is going to cause more harm.

No easy choice.

Thing is, if we have a GE, will we just end up
With a Parliament full of UKIPPers in coalition with Brexiteer tories?
Because the remainer vote will be spilt (as far as I can see, the only real remain party in England are Lib Dem’s and they aren’t electable). Whereas the brexit vote is obvious. 😰

Many parties have been taken over by the hard left and far right, they are deselecting MPs and sometimes it's better the devil you know.

I hope we don't have a general election, that's the worst option, I hope MPs sort things out and soon.

DGR

I am not a hardcore remainer.

I wanted an option to pass tonight and I am disappointed that one has not passed and incredibly disgusted at my MP who voted against all options.

But I am tired - like everyone else is.

I do not any faith in the PM to make things better and I have even less faith in the Brexiteer who will replace her if her WA passes.

Tonight is anger and despair. We will see how things change.

But I think your comments are really unfair.

Pmk

Apologies that was Big choc - it’s been a long day!!

Anna Soubry's Twitter:
We’ve made more progress in less than a day of debate than the govt has made in 2 years.
@peoplesvote_uk
topped poll again with #CustomsUnion 3 off a majority. We can now forge a compromise & get #Brexit back to the people for a final resolution
@TheIndGroup

No deal is a known hell any aggro caused by a ref is unknown.

Certain hell or unknown? Unknown any day.

Tonight is anger and despair. We will see how things change
Things always change. Thank you for holding the line.
Tricky times.

I'm a sucker for pickled beetroot Scooby with everything.

Onwards, folks.

While I am disappointed at the SNP for abstaining on Ken Clark's CU , I am equally even more angry at those that refuse to vote for the back stop Revoke-if-2-days-away-from-No-Deal for no other reason (that I can see) than because it was in Joanna Cherry's name I would say that Labour's abstention on that was more dangerous than the SNP's one (because at least they did vote for the Common Market 2.0)

I'm not furious with the SNP - they have explained why they cannot vote for the CU option - no freedom of movement.

I am however fucking furious with the 121 Labour abstentions on Joanna Cherry's insurance to prevent no deal! WTF were they thinking?! Absolutely no reason not to support it. It would have passed if they'd voted.

If we crash out in 11 days time, they are as much to blame. I do not want to hear Keir Starmer go on again about how he doesn't want no deal - he had a chance tonight to prevent it!

I don't see any other ending to this. A general election will not solve anything. We'll just be here again in a few months time.