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Original poster

Westminstenders: For Whom the Bell Tolls

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 01/04/2019 22:59

Although another round of Indicative Votes is scheduled, arguably the chance for a soft Brexit has gone for two reasons.

Parliament was unable to show a majority because those on the opposition benches were too busy saying 'I want this but only on these terms' or still being too unwilling to compromise. Thus the opportunity and point for a third round starts to look weak.

The second is that Tory MPs were resolute in an opposition to a soft Brexit.

Unless May decides to be the next Robert Peel and go for a soft Brexit on the back of opposition vote its not going to happen.

This leaves May's deal as it stands or no deal.

May seems to have actually lost a few supporters of her deal since Friday, and given the performance of the opposition tonight and the prospect of round 3 of indicative votes they will still be unwilling to go for May's deal.

Which leaves no deal.

There is talk of a managed no deal. There is no such thing. The EU plan for that is essentially to push us into the deal in order to get a trading relationship.

And that will push us closer to the us. Which is what many torys want. And what polling seems to suggest they will have surprising support for.

Sorry folks but it don't look great tonight.

The opposition benches may look back on tonight and think they screwed it. I hope I'm wrong. But I fear tonight might have sealed our fate.

Tomorrow may has a 5hr cabinet. And a secret document dmfor the cabinet to study first.

It's going to get bumpy from here on in...

OP posts:

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horseshit · 02/04/2019 15:15

Morello - you’re right, it did say no deal is better than a bad deal. (That was a genuine question by the way.) But they still lost their majority, which means that the will of the people is not a Tory Brexit. But regardless, as unfortunately both major parties said they were committed to Brexit, but that does not mean a vote for Labour was a vote for Brexit.

MorelloKisses · 02/04/2019 15:15

I hear you all- I was deeply frustrated that the last GE gave remainers no options. I’m not defending it - just stating facts.

It’s what’s lead to this whole debacle, a remain HOC that can’t propose any remain amendments because they all committed to leave.

Nevertheless, this is where we are!!

Sakura7 · 02/04/2019 15:16

Why would No Deal be such a bad thing? we voted to leave, clean slate and all that.

Have you done any research at all? Listened to industry experts?

If you think food shortages, medicine shortages and prices rises are not so bad, off you go.

MorelloKisses · 02/04/2019 15:16

but that does not mean a vote for Labour was a vote for Brexit

It has meant Labour can’t/haven’t/won’t take a remain stance

(That and JCs deep held beliefs)

TheElementsSong · 02/04/2019 15:17

Condolences to you Hasenstein and family

BigChocFrenzy · 02/04/2019 15:18

tatiana Even "soft Brexit" requires the WA

So does No Deal, if we ever want to start trade negotiations with the EU

The question is whether we do a Varoufakis and refuse a bad deal for an even worse one:

i.e. the WA without the EU benefits of transition until 1 Jan 2021

Gambling on the EU blinking and saying they didn't mean that .... when the UK 6 months after transition would be desperate to agree to anything, is not a gamble I'm prepared to take

colouringinpro · 02/04/2019 15:18

I really really wish all the companies and organisations that had NDA's imposed by the government woukd just unilaterally break them.

Not sure it would actually make a difference though.

Thanks pp re Weimar. Might hold on to my (small, uk summer holiday) fund for now

horseshit · 02/04/2019 15:19

It has meant Labour can’t/haven’t/won’t take a remain stance

You’re right on that one. They should have grown spines after realising their soft Brexit wasn’t going to go through, but alas, it’s too little to late.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/04/2019 15:20

Hasenstein 💐
I'm sorry for your loss and also disgusted that this Brexit clusterfuck is causing you extra inconvenience & money

MorelloKisses · 02/04/2019 15:20

It has meant Labour can’t/haven’t/won’t take a remain stance

And why another GE would be no bloody help at all.

howabout · 02/04/2019 15:20

Icantreach Labour politicians took the political calculation in large numbers to vote / abstain the Party Whip because they are answerable to their electorate. Tories have even more to lose.

If you and Spinner Campbell cannot appreciate this reality then I rest my case.

DGRossetti · 02/04/2019 15:21

It’s what’s lead to this whole debacle, a remain HOC that can’t propose any remain amendments because they all committed to leave.

Bollocks. 1000 times bollocks.

What led to this is the total and utter lack of any single, workable definition of "Leave". And that lies entirely at the feet of the Leave campaign. If it were some sort of oversight, it might be manageable. But it wasn't it was a deliberate and cynical ploy to ensure that there was no way to argue against Leave. Leave was like the Willy Wonka sweet which tasted exactly like what the person tasting it wanted it to taste of.

The second Leave won they fucked off and expected Remainers to deliver the magic.

There were too many forensically accurate memes doing the rounds at the time to resurrect now. But they were spot in.

Leave is 100% to blame for this shitshow, and the Tories are just as culpable for not standing up to them, and then gagging as the Leave cock slips deeper down the party throat.

1tisILeClerc · 02/04/2019 15:21

Hasenstein
to you and family.

Tanith · 02/04/2019 15:21

"Needs to be more subtle ... there's an art to trolling"

I shall tell him, DGR But ITN is supposed to be a national news provider, isn't it?

MorelloKisses · 02/04/2019 15:23

What led to this is the total and utter lack of any single, workable definition of "Leave".

Ah, well yes and of course that at its core.

I rather meant that because of the commitment at the last GE, everyone in HOc is backed into a leave corner and there seems no possibility of that turning

DGRossetti · 02/04/2019 15:25

But ITN is supposed to be a national news provider, isn't it

Shrug ...

dunno. I don't have any time for UK media really. Forums like this across various niche subjects provide a much wider and balanced view. Plus non-UK sites (the MNS portals are a good jumping off point). If nothing else it keeps my French and Italian honed .... (a littel Spanish, but I've never been exposed to German ...)

woman19 · 02/04/2019 15:25

@IanDunt
Hearing that reports of indicative votes death are overstated. Expectation is they will take place tomorrow alongside Cooper bill.

Whitehall announces preparations for EU elections
www.localgov.co.uk/Whitehall-announces-preparations-for-EU-elections-/47173

Item on in it on R4 WATO today.

condolences to your wife and you Hasenstein

horseshit · 02/04/2019 15:26

Long extension not a given according to Macron when he met with Varadkar just now. No surprise there, but let’s hope MPs take note.

Westminstenders: For Whom the Bell Tolls

DGRossetti · 02/04/2019 15:27

What I find interesting is that Leave had fuck all detail, and won, whereas the reason given for the failure of IndyRef was that there wasn't any detail.

woman19 · 02/04/2019 15:29

Sorry Blueyshadow see you posted about that Dunt tweet.

woman19 · 02/04/2019 15:32