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Brexit

Westministenders: Happy Birthday Chris Grayling!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/03/2019 22:35

Yep he's an April Fool. No really he is!

Today (1st April - I'm starting the thread slightly early) is the return of Indicative Votes.

This follows the defeat of May's Deal by 286 to 344 on Friday.

The Sunday Press has been full of talk of a Cabinet Collapse with 10 Cabinet Brexiteers threatening to walk, with the support of 170 Tory MPs, if May goes for a softer Brexit or fails to leave the EU by 22nd May regardless of whether this is with a Deal or with No Deal and Remain Cabinet Members threatening to walk if May goes for No Deal.

This is in addition to May's apparent threat that the House was at its limits for the process which has been taken as meaning she is considering a GE. Which both Tory Brexiteers and Tory Remainers say they will block. The threat of a GE has largely been seen as a threat to force MPs to back her deal.

May now faces the choice she has always resisted, which on the face of it, looks like it could cause a split in the Tory Party. She will obviously do everything she can to avoid making that choice. Her solution seems to be MV4 with the Snell / Nandy Amendment, which gives parliament a say in the next phase of Brexit. This theorectically is about the Political Declaration (PD) which the Indicative Votes essentially is about.

However it needs to be stressed repeatedly that the EU have said, that they do not care about the PD and all soft Brexits (variations on May's current PD) also require the WA to pass, such is the EU's distrust in the UK. This would include the Common Market 2.0 suggestion (Boles Amendment 189-283), despite what various MPs have suggested simply because it could be used as a temporary transition by the backdoor and CM2.0 doesn't cover certain aspects of withdrawal such as the divorce settlement, long term citizens rights and fishing rights amongst others. And this is going to be a big issue when it comes to the DUP who are now leaning to a soft Brexit or even revocation.

In light of this apparent Government Nervous Breakdown John Major has raised the prospect of a temporary government of National Unity, which is difficult to envisage how that would work given the current parliamentary polarisation. Indeed Labour have ruled this possibility out.

There has also been comments made that any policy passed by Parliament stemming from Indicative Votes could be ignored by May by her using her status of PM to ask the Queen to refuse to give it Royal Ascent. Which surely would go down a storm with her Majesty to be asked to be embroiled into this political pantomine.

Voting on the Indicative Votes is due to start at 8pm - 8.30pm tomorrow with a debate before it.

The Options on the table (but yet to be selected by the Speaker) are:
A) Baron, unilateral backstop exit.

B) Baron, if no WA by then, no-deal Brexit on 12/4. 160-400

C) Clarke, permanent UK-wide customs union. 265-271

D) Boles, Common Market 2.0 (EEA+CU).
Broadly similar to motion from last week, with some changes. 189-283

^E) Kyle / Beckett, WA + PD approval subject to confirmatory PV. 268-295

F) Jones/Grieve, PV if necessary to prevent no deal. Not previously tabled.

G) Cherry, A50 revocation as default if necessary to prevent no deal.
More detailed version of last weeks motion. 184-293

H) Eustice, EFTA+EEA.
Slightly modified version from last week. 64-377

Clark and Boles amendments are the ones to watch. They have apparently gathered more support since last week. Boles CM2.0 appears to have Labour swinging support behind it, unofficially atm.

May is also under pressure to allow the Cabinet Free Votes this time on the CU vote (they abstained last week). Whether this will happen is still anyone's guess.

There is also talk of an alternative 'Custom's Partnership' idea - a fudge that would see the UK stay in parts of a customs union. This idea has been previously rejected by the EU and the Cabinet. But we know how much May loves her fudges.

Robert Peston is saying tonight that whether May and the Government fall may rest on how much support the Customs Union and her allies are desparate for it to get a parliamentary majority - particularly with support from more Conservatives (it only got 35 Tory Votes last time). This would mark a breakthrough and the first positive majority for Brexit.

If it passes, the suggestion is that MV4 will be Tuesday. Of course it remains to be seen if ERG hardliners who switched last week would continue to support her deal if she goes for a CU option and whether getting a parliamentary majority for a CU plus the Snell Amendment would be sufficient to persuade enough Labour MPs, the DUP and perhaps Tory Remainers to push it over the line.

However May going for the CU could provoke a Cabinet resignations or even splits in the party meaning that MV4 on Tuesday is somehow impossible or at least delayed.

Expect May to keep her cards to her chest about whether she will go for a CU as long as possible as a result. (Possibly NOT before a MV4).

Meanwhile it looks like there might be a storm brewing about the stripping of NI born Irish citizens of their EU citizenship, which seems to be in breech of the GFA.

And the Tory Leadership contest is in full swing. Hunt and Javid have been labelled as The TiTs (Theresa in Trousers), Johnson is styling himself as a One Nation Tory (although he is not a member of the One Nation Group within the party) who will bring sweeping tax cuts, and Grayling is saying the next leader must be a Cabinet Minister with experience and has always been a Brexiteer.

And Finally, David Allen Green raises a concern about a potential new exit day, if it changes from 12 April.

David Allen Green @ Davidallengreen
If a new exit day is not agreed until 10/11 April (ie European Council), there will be not enough time for exit day in domestic legislation to be amended in time before 12 April. It was close this time, with the shift from 29 March.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2019 18:58

I hate to confess, but I had little problem with the menopause
Osteoporosis runs in my family starting at an earlier age than I am now, but no signs yet, maybe because I'm a gym rat / weightlifter

Hence I never discussed taking HRT, because of the increased risks of other nasty things
hmm, I do sound chicken / ostrich Blush
Maybe I should consider it, but at nearly 63 might be pointless now

67chevvyimpala · 01/04/2019 19:01

I was 39 when it all kicked off so hrt is recommended to protect the heart and bones.

The HRT makes me slightly less prone to psychotic rages.

cherin · 01/04/2019 19:04

Barclay is a playground bully. Grrrrrrr

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2019 19:04

I agree, pretzels but I know some really hardcore Remainers want a Remain vs No Deal PV,
to push Leavers who had wanted a soft Brexit towards Remain and
to reduce the temptation with a soft Brexit option that voters would regard it as a compromise

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2019 19:09

Ouch, chevvy that's early
I had meno at 51
I think I was so happy at the whole "No more Periods" thing that I didn't consider HRT,

  • other than no periods I had hardly any symptoms.
AutumnCrow · 01/04/2019 19:09

Thanks for the links, @Sostenueto, I've enjoyed them.

67chevvyimpala · 01/04/2019 19:13

It was grim bigchoc and it all kicked off with me being blue lighted to resus with AF!!

Scary!

After a few nights of waking up so drenched in sweat that I had to change the sheets, I realised I needed to see a dr.

Add to that the usual: hair loss, skin problems, itching, migraines, fatigue, anxiety....

It's been super fun:)

SusanWalker · 01/04/2019 19:15

I think most of the brexiteers have left the chamber so he can't really call on them, can he?

BercowsSilkTie · 01/04/2019 19:15

I'm going to make an appt at the GP for some bloods. 42 and signs of menopause. I know from previous treatment that I don't respond well to lack of oestrogen in my body so I'll be seeking some HRT as soon as needed.

RedToothBrush · 01/04/2019 19:17

Jon Stone @ joncstone
Will be interesting to see how TIG and Lib Dems refusing to back Norway+ goes down with their Remain supporters. May be popular with an #FBPE hardcore, but others who were previously sympathetic may accuse them of being absolute arsonists

Interesting and I wonder how much truth there is to this.

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Quintella · 01/04/2019 19:17

I wonder how long it took Bercow to learn all 650 MPs names and the name of their constituency. 'The Rt Hon Member of Parliament for Chufflington in the Marsh is quite right when she says...'

He never even pauses.

Reminds me of the Devil Wears Prada when Miranda Priestley's assistant has to swot up on learning the names and bios of the great and the good of the fashion world.

SusanWalker · 01/04/2019 19:18

Perhaps I ought to do docs too. I am 43 and definitely menopausal. I've been putting it off as I am a coward. I don't want bloods done at all.

RedToothBrush · 01/04/2019 19:19

Ian Dunt @iandunt
Strange day. Corbyn's Labour party being much more pragmatic and sensible than Grieve, Boles, Lib Dems & Tiggers.

Interesting especially after my last post!

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Horehound · 01/04/2019 19:20

If theybhavent voted yet and the votes are to be on paper when are the results due?last week it took hours for the results Confused

NoWordForFluffy · 01/04/2019 19:20

I'm also 42 and seem mostly OK so far, but as soon as I'm not I'll be getting HRT too!

My mum was a bit of a nightmare to live with during the menopause, but claimed it had little effect on her. We would disagree!

BaconMushroomAndScrambledEggs · 01/04/2019 19:20

Wow, the thong clad protesters Grin

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 01/04/2019 19:20

Ugh. Watching Channel 4. Andrew Bridgen brings me out in hives.

lonelyplanetmum · 01/04/2019 19:21

Also a lot of the Brexit bunch aren't even in there yet are they?

Violetparis · 01/04/2019 19:26

Norman Lamb from the Lib Dems is voting for the customs union and common market amendments. Hope more do, I think people will be annoyed if other Lib Dems and the Tiggers don't support these options.

AutumnCrow · 01/04/2019 19:27

Keir Starmer appears to have more of a hand now in this newly-emerging Labour pragmatism.

Tory govt and ERG have pissed off out to meetings and screamings, but will be back for final divisive and vile remarks prior to voting.

TheElementsSong · 01/04/2019 19:28

Will be interesting to see how TIG and Lib Dems refusing to back Norway+ goes down with their Remain supporters.

I'm not amused FWIW. I'm a "hard Remainer" but I think pragmatism is very important: it's more important to avoid crashing out without a deal, and also if push came to shove I'd be able to live with a soft Brexit like Norway+.

67chevvyimpala · 01/04/2019 19:28

He's my mp maud

Pity me!

67chevvyimpala · 01/04/2019 19:29

"meetings and screamings"

🤣🤣🤣🤣

ElenadeClermont · 01/04/2019 19:29

I am 47 and probably in peri menopause, but I always had psychotic rages due to hormones so hard to tell. Apparently my Mom dod not have it till the age of 55. Confused I cannot remember.

67chevvyimpala · 01/04/2019 19:30

Me too elements

I'm so pissed off with the TiGs

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