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Brexit

Westministenders: Happy Birthday Chris Grayling!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/03/2019 22:35

Yep he's an April Fool. No really he is!

Today (1st April - I'm starting the thread slightly early) is the return of Indicative Votes.

This follows the defeat of May's Deal by 286 to 344 on Friday.

The Sunday Press has been full of talk of a Cabinet Collapse with 10 Cabinet Brexiteers threatening to walk, with the support of 170 Tory MPs, if May goes for a softer Brexit or fails to leave the EU by 22nd May regardless of whether this is with a Deal or with No Deal and Remain Cabinet Members threatening to walk if May goes for No Deal.

This is in addition to May's apparent threat that the House was at its limits for the process which has been taken as meaning she is considering a GE. Which both Tory Brexiteers and Tory Remainers say they will block. The threat of a GE has largely been seen as a threat to force MPs to back her deal.

May now faces the choice she has always resisted, which on the face of it, looks like it could cause a split in the Tory Party. She will obviously do everything she can to avoid making that choice. Her solution seems to be MV4 with the Snell / Nandy Amendment, which gives parliament a say in the next phase of Brexit. This theorectically is about the Political Declaration (PD) which the Indicative Votes essentially is about.

However it needs to be stressed repeatedly that the EU have said, that they do not care about the PD and all soft Brexits (variations on May's current PD) also require the WA to pass, such is the EU's distrust in the UK. This would include the Common Market 2.0 suggestion (Boles Amendment 189-283), despite what various MPs have suggested simply because it could be used as a temporary transition by the backdoor and CM2.0 doesn't cover certain aspects of withdrawal such as the divorce settlement, long term citizens rights and fishing rights amongst others. And this is going to be a big issue when it comes to the DUP who are now leaning to a soft Brexit or even revocation.

In light of this apparent Government Nervous Breakdown John Major has raised the prospect of a temporary government of National Unity, which is difficult to envisage how that would work given the current parliamentary polarisation. Indeed Labour have ruled this possibility out.

There has also been comments made that any policy passed by Parliament stemming from Indicative Votes could be ignored by May by her using her status of PM to ask the Queen to refuse to give it Royal Ascent. Which surely would go down a storm with her Majesty to be asked to be embroiled into this political pantomine.

Voting on the Indicative Votes is due to start at 8pm - 8.30pm tomorrow with a debate before it.

The Options on the table (but yet to be selected by the Speaker) are:
A) Baron, unilateral backstop exit.

B) Baron, if no WA by then, no-deal Brexit on 12/4. 160-400

C) Clarke, permanent UK-wide customs union. 265-271

D) Boles, Common Market 2.0 (EEA+CU).
Broadly similar to motion from last week, with some changes. 189-283

^E) Kyle / Beckett, WA + PD approval subject to confirmatory PV. 268-295

F) Jones/Grieve, PV if necessary to prevent no deal. Not previously tabled.

G) Cherry, A50 revocation as default if necessary to prevent no deal.
More detailed version of last weeks motion. 184-293

H) Eustice, EFTA+EEA.
Slightly modified version from last week. 64-377

Clark and Boles amendments are the ones to watch. They have apparently gathered more support since last week. Boles CM2.0 appears to have Labour swinging support behind it, unofficially atm.

May is also under pressure to allow the Cabinet Free Votes this time on the CU vote (they abstained last week). Whether this will happen is still anyone's guess.

There is also talk of an alternative 'Custom's Partnership' idea - a fudge that would see the UK stay in parts of a customs union. This idea has been previously rejected by the EU and the Cabinet. But we know how much May loves her fudges.

Robert Peston is saying tonight that whether May and the Government fall may rest on how much support the Customs Union and her allies are desparate for it to get a parliamentary majority - particularly with support from more Conservatives (it only got 35 Tory Votes last time). This would mark a breakthrough and the first positive majority for Brexit.

If it passes, the suggestion is that MV4 will be Tuesday. Of course it remains to be seen if ERG hardliners who switched last week would continue to support her deal if she goes for a CU option and whether getting a parliamentary majority for a CU plus the Snell Amendment would be sufficient to persuade enough Labour MPs, the DUP and perhaps Tory Remainers to push it over the line.

However May going for the CU could provoke a Cabinet resignations or even splits in the party meaning that MV4 on Tuesday is somehow impossible or at least delayed.

Expect May to keep her cards to her chest about whether she will go for a CU as long as possible as a result. (Possibly NOT before a MV4).

Meanwhile it looks like there might be a storm brewing about the stripping of NI born Irish citizens of their EU citizenship, which seems to be in breech of the GFA.

And the Tory Leadership contest is in full swing. Hunt and Javid have been labelled as The TiTs (Theresa in Trousers), Johnson is styling himself as a One Nation Tory (although he is not a member of the One Nation Group within the party) who will bring sweeping tax cuts, and Grayling is saying the next leader must be a Cabinet Minister with experience and has always been a Brexiteer.

And Finally, David Allen Green raises a concern about a potential new exit day, if it changes from 12 April.

David Allen Green @ Davidallengreen
If a new exit day is not agreed until 10/11 April (ie European Council), there will be not enough time for exit day in domestic legislation to be amended in time before 12 April. It was close this time, with the shift from 29 March.

OP posts:
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Sostenueto · 01/04/2019 18:32

And another telling Boris the animal off!

Butterymuffin · 01/04/2019 18:36

He [the Speaker] is being partisan by applying his discretion to the advantage mostly of those who want to stop Brexit.

The Speaker's discretionary powers pale besides May's as PM and she has misused those to a shocking degree. He has used his powers not to prevent a vote being held, but to prevent a third identical vote being held on legislation the house had already rejected twice. I see it as stepping in to prevent bullying of MPs.

In order for the executive to be accountable to the House, it needs to be able to act, otherwise is has nothing to be held to account for

May has had plenty of time to act and to seek out and put together plans that would get support. She hasn't done this. What's that saying about how lack of preparation on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part? May is not able to act because she is only willing to countenance her chosen way forward and won't grasp that the house doesn't support it. That isn't the Speaker's fault, it's hers for not realising all this much, much sooner.

He is being partisan by applying his discretion to the advantage mostly of those who want to stop Brexit.

vanitythynameisnotwoman · 01/04/2019 18:36

It was around 6m ago that the law was put into place about pregabalin and its prodrug, gabapentin - and it's true as far as I understand that the deaths were recreational (Disclaimer: I both take it and - sometimes - prescribe it). I've also heard of shortages and it's possibly one of those that would be a challenge post Brexit. Because it's category C you can still get two months at a time of it (rather than one for cat A).

1tisILeClerc · 01/04/2019 18:37

67chevvyimpala
Can you post me some please?

vanitythynameisnotwoman · 01/04/2019 18:37

That's for E+W btw.

BelfastBloke · 01/04/2019 18:37

Apparently the naked protesters glued themselves to the glass barrier/balcony.???

Can't have been superglue because they were removed pretty quickly.

Butterymuffin · 01/04/2019 18:37

Sorry, pasted that last quoted sentence in again by mistake.

NoWordForFluffy · 01/04/2019 18:39

Huw Merriman (the one who's changed his position today) was quite amusing saying that while he's a leaver he's happy to go for PV to break the deadlock so the MV doesn't keep coming back.

He actually seems reasonable for someone who wants no deal! 😱

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2019 18:40

red Has Nick Boles checked with the EFTA members that they'd now accept the UK joining ?
because they would all have to agree

and some time ago Norway politicans were saying they didn't want us,
as we might veto taking over any new EU regs and hence bugger up EFTA
The other EFTA members din't sound very keen either

Contrary to what UK politicians keep thinking, Germany cannot - and would not try to - to E27 or EFTA members into taking significant risks to help a leaving country.

Maybe the amendment is thinking of a 3rd EEA pillar just for us - which would have been an excellent option a few months ago.

Sostenueto · 01/04/2019 18:43

One last one

RedToothBrush · 01/04/2019 18:48

BCF. I know he did talk to them some time ago and got a less than positive response though not an outright no, if I remember correctly.

The LDs have confirmed they will back neither CU nor the CM2 motions.

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BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2019 18:48

Louisecollins The problem is with the ERG - and May's DUP frenemies - not the Speaker
Also of course the shameful ignorance, arrogance and incompetence of govt ministers

The executive in a hung Parliament does not have the power that a govt eith a working majority would normally have,
especially when a party within their party is trying to wreck the government's key policy of Brexit with a deal
and repeatedly trying to bring down their own PM

67chevvyimpala · 01/04/2019 18:48

I shall lob some in a jiffy bag forthwith leclerc

Sostenueto · 01/04/2019 18:49

At this rate I will be asleep through boredom before they vote. Think I'll go have a snack and a cuppa.....

MarshaBradyo · 01/04/2019 18:52

In behind
Why does the speaker get to decide, sounds like a lot of power for one person to have

What are people hoping to happen?

MarshaBradyo · 01/04/2019 18:52

I’m behind

bellinisurge · 01/04/2019 18:54

He does it because that's how our sovereign parliament works. The best we can hope for is an indication of what would get a majority in Parliament. God knows how we get the EU to agree on a new thing by 10 April.

LouiseCollins28 · 01/04/2019 18:55

Some of the actions of the ERG are deplorable. They do not absovle the Speaker however. Watching the debate live, constant succession of remain MPs being called to speak.

MarshaBradyo · 01/04/2019 18:55

Sure it’s the rules and I like him as much as the next person. But surprised it’s how it works

FaFoutis · 01/04/2019 18:55

What time are results due?

67chevvyimpala · 01/04/2019 18:55

Cracks me up when leavers bleat that bercow is pro remain.

Its because of bercows intervention that the referendum was included in the 2015 Tory manifesto!!!

vanitythynameisnotwoman · 01/04/2019 18:56

The Tiggers are they same as the LDs - not supporting CU/CM 2.0.

That's a bit disappointing.

Icantreachthepretzels · 01/04/2019 18:57

The LDs have confirmed they will back neither CU nor the CM2 motions

Why? I know they want a P.V - but for that to happen there has to be some kind of decision on what the people are going to be voting on. And surely they want the 'leave' option to be as least damaging as it possibly can be? Ideally as close to remain as it possibly can be.

I would describe myself as a pretty hardline remainer - but even I recognise that we have to flesh out what leave looks like before we can let people choose between it and remain.

67chevvyimpala · 01/04/2019 18:58

....and as for him only calling on remainers!!!...all I see to hear when I watch are the DUP and erg and arseholes like hoey and skinner.

And JC of course, who is arguably as keen on a no deal Brexit as the erg!

cherin · 01/04/2019 18:58

I’m hidden in the kitchen with earphones and listening to the debate, whilst cooking risotto. Why, oh why is SNP not presenting candidates to England?? I’d vote for Joanna cherry straight away....