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Brexit

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina

953 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 19:58

Todays News Round Up (so far):

  1. MV2.5 failed by 58 votes.
  2. Labour Rebels were not tempted by May's promises of consultation with parliament over the next phase. This is because this is not a binding promise and with a possible change of leader this is even more lacking in substance
  3. More ERG than expected switched to supporting the WA. This included leadership hopefuls Johnson and Raab. But there were still 28 hold outs plus 6 Tory Remain Rebels.
  4. Macron said that the EU would be the ones to decide the timetable for no deal if we failed to pass the WA or ask for an extension by 12th April. Thus 12th April is NOT necessarily the cliff edge we fear, though it still is no deal. (Its just a possible time delay). As far as a lengthy extension goes he would want not just EP election participation but also more in the way of a concrete way forward than we currently have though.
  5. The EUCO are meeting on the April 10th. Thus we have until then to work something out. Thats quite the ask.
  6. A series of mini deals in the event of No Deal is something the EU are firmly ruling out. And yet the myth that this will happen is still out there.
  7. No Deal would probably mean the Backstop being in effect anyway in practice, simply because its the only way to stop a hard border.
  8. The penny has dropped with the DUP over this, and they have finally abandoned the idea of a hard brexit and possibly brexit all together if it threatens NI position in the union. They would rather remain. Thus the GFA problem is at least acknowledged.
  9. The DUP did something curious in the indicative votes. They signalled where there was room for them to move, in how they voted - they revealed what they were opposed to and what they might be talked into with their abstaining
  10. There seems to be moves elsewhere to a softer brexit with more signatories to Common Market 2.0 gaining support and more vocal support for the Customs Union.
  11. Donald Tusk signalled that the EU could change the PD to a custom union relatively easily.
  12. May had a meeting earlier with ministers who are urging her to go for No Deal now
  13. May said cryptically after the vote in the commons that the process was almost beyond what the house could provide. What she meant by this isn't obvious.
  14. The problem is that any deal requires the WA to pass... the WA merely is the divorce arrangement and not the economic and political alignment aftewards. All soft Brexits require the WA.

The DUP will never support the backstop.
And Labour although they say they accept the WA will never support a blind Brexit and distrust the Tories fearing they will backtrack on any PD.
The only way to square this circle is to have a legally binding PD which looks a lot like the backstop with NI and the rUK in it.
Which the ERG would never buy into.
And the EU might not allow.

And to get an extension we'd need to pass legislation for EP elections - and its difficult to work out where May would get a majority in the HoC from to facilitate that without the government collasping in the attempt.

Thus as we move forward the stakes get higher, and without any progress on a deal the chances of both No Deal and Revoke get higher. And I don't fancy testing May's resolve to revoke - especially since that might require parliamentary approval too. Is there a majority to revoke if the alternative really is No Deal?

Parliament needs to move FAST to avoid both. Parliament isn't good at moving fast.

I also note that the DUP's political survival might well rest now with remaining. Apparently like the Conservatives, the uncertainity of Brexit has lead to a loss of confidence in the party amongst business leaders, which has led to a drop in donations. This is coupled with May's threat that No Deal would result in Direct Rule. The likes of Arlene are on the Stormont Pay Role, so this would starve them of money there. And this is all without the prospect of polling on an all Ireland referendum. The ERG hanging them out to dry, only serves to make it or the more likely.

Surely an election beckons one way or another, later this year? This is unsustainable for the DUP. And for May who has today, refused to rule one out...

Prediction: We are going to get through a lot of threads and have late nights between the 9th and 12th.

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QuentinWinters · 30/03/2019 08:21

I would like Revoke for now
I heard an expert on the radio say it's built into EU law that art 50 can only be triggered once. It is deliberate because they didn't want states to be able to use it for brinkmanship and threaten to leave all the time.
So if we revoke that's it, we are staying. Might be why some remain MPs e.g. Ken Clarke are going for v soft brexit rather than revoke

RedToothBrush · 30/03/2019 08:21

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/eurostar-disruption-passengers-urged-not-to-travel-after-all-services-suspended-from-st-pancras-a4104966.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true
Eurostar disruption: Passengers urged not to travel as all trains suspended from St Pancras due to trespasser 'waving St George's flag'

Well I guess its peaceful protest but he's not going to win many friends.

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RedToothBrush · 30/03/2019 08:23

Beth Rigby@bethrigby
.@BrandonLewis: Parliament has to come to a view on something it can agree on but also says a Custom Union is not in the Tory manifesto.

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NoWordForFluffy · 30/03/2019 08:25

What an idiot! I think he should stick to protesting in a way which isn't an arrestable offence and doesn't cause severe disruption!

Mistigri · 30/03/2019 08:25

I heard an expert on the radio say it's built into EU law that art 50 can only be triggered once. It is deliberate because they didn't want states to be able to use it for brinkmanship and threaten to leave all the time.
So if we revoke that's it, we are staying.

Pretty sure this is nonsense - it's part of the political campaign against revoke.

jasjas1973 · 30/03/2019 08:34

@BrandonLewis Parliament has to come to a view on something it can agree on but also says a Custom Union is not in the Tory manifesto

Entrenched views are why we are in this utter mess..... if this is really the stumbling block, then no point carrying on & we may as well have a GE?

NotSureThisIsWhatIWant · 30/03/2019 08:38

Sigh. This is like a perfect storm.

QueenOfThorns · 30/03/2019 08:38

Feline PMK. 1/1 cats surveyed said that Westministenders threads are the most comfortable for lying on Smile

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina
RedToothBrush · 30/03/2019 08:40

Sky news breaking @skynewsbreak
British Transport Police says a 44-year-old man has been arrested for trespass and obstruction of the railway after he spent the night on the roof of St Pancras Railway Station in London

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OhYouBadBadKitten · 30/03/2019 08:47

In the mean time, the Brexit ferry service has started...www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/no-deal-brexit-ferry-service-starts-brittanny-seaborne-freight-a8846136.html

RedToothBrush · 30/03/2019 08:48

Faisal Islam@faisalislam
Dominic Grieve deselection campaign being led by someone who not only stood against him as Ukip candidate in GE 2017, was a UKIP local council candidate and local branch chairman of Ukip, but also stood for the UKIP National Executive Council in 2016... now a Conservative.

"There is no blukip entrism..."

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NoWordForFluffy · 30/03/2019 08:48

[[www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/no-deal-brexit-ferry-service-starts-brittanny-seaborne-freight-a8846136.html
Clicky ferry link.]]

HesterThrale · 30/03/2019 08:51

WRT to Grieve and Soubry voting records. They do look harsh. As woman said last week, ‘Tories gonna Tory’.
But how many of those votes were whipped? And would they vote differently if they were in an Independent party?

It’ll be interesting to see how the Tiggers vote on issues in future, particularly as Heidi Allen is the ‘de facto leader’, and she seems a very compassionate and open-minded person. (Remembering the tv programme she did visiting food banks with Frank Field last year, in which she was brought to tears seeing some folks’ plight.)

NoWordForFluffy · 30/03/2019 08:53

What a good job we have those ferries; just what is needed right now.

I'm bemused at why Brittany Ferries says it's too late to cancel the crossings though; I'd like to see a copy of the contract and the logic behind it. I imagine it's that it's too late to sell the space elsewhere.

Possibly not entirely Grayling's fault given the short notice on the extension. But I'm feeling charitable in the absence of seeing the contract!

QueenOfThorns · 30/03/2019 08:53

“A man has climbed on to the roof of a central London station and is being a massive pain in the arse? We must give him what he wants. Let us leave the European Union forthwith!”

Said no politician ever. Confused

Pepvixen · 30/03/2019 08:57

If we are in the single market we will be able to sell our services within the single market. That's true whether we are an EU member state or not. The EBA moved because we were no longer going to be a member state. If we are in the single market (such as common market 2.0 proposal) then we will be able to sell our services. We will still need to comply with EBA guidelines etc but will no longer have a vote. However I think in the medium term we can influence around '2 speed europe' and have a voice again. (will require good negotiators, but we have lots of them - civil servants, regulators etc not brexity politicians).

1tisILeClerc · 30/03/2019 08:59

The 'Don't they know who we are' attitude and refusing to either listen or take note of what the EU have been saying for a long time will be the end of the UK.
Reading through the threads this morning, most on here are looking at this as what is best for the UK, rather than what is best for a united and 'content' Europe, of which the UK should be a member. Those posters on here that read the European press and get feedback from European friends and colleagues have a noticeable difference in tone.
Of course the UK will 'survive' but it is difficult to imagine it will ever get back to the relatively halcyon days of say 4 years ago and more likely to settle on a similar level to a middle ranking EU country, which if the social inequality were to be 'fixed' isn't actually bad. The trouble being that those in Westminster to actually do this are few and far between. Neither traditional Labour or Tory have a real sense and capability to unite the UK. Labour, from the union days when striking to force improvements is such a dumb and counterproductive stance to take.

TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince · 30/03/2019 09:12

I watched the news all yesterday afternoon and evening (sad bastard)

The main theme coming through from all the commentators is that Brexit in its current form is finished.

Most seemed to indicate a customs union or a referendum. Even though cu isn’t in the Tory party manifesto. Because this Brexit is dead. I heard it over and over again😂

They all seemed to think we would get some sort of extension to sort it. And that no deal wouldn’t happen,

It was fun watching all the pissed off Brexiteers👍🏻

prettybird · 30/03/2019 09:16

LonelyPlanetMum - if it's any consolation, Sky News is no longer Murdoch owned Smile

QuentinWinters - if A50 can legally only be triggered once, I'm sure that the full judgement of the ECJ - formed with all the ECJ judges sitting - would have mentioned it when they ruled on the ability to revoke it unilaterally Confused Instead, they actually took out the safeguard that the interim judgement had had that it can't be triggered repeatedly and capriciously (those weren't the words used in the interim judgement but that was the sentiment Wink) Hmm

bojosmoralcompass · 30/03/2019 09:19

Thanks for the title and content Red, your efforts are very much appreciated. I understood that the WA is now dead, thanks to Erskine May. It is heartbreaking the state we are now in, I hope that the Tories are annihilated at the ballot box now that they have been so completely clear that they put self interest and party way before country. In what universe is a principled decent MP like Dominic Grieve booted out while Johnson, Raab and Gove are touted as contenders for leader. God help us.

BercowsSilkTie · 30/03/2019 09:20

Morning fellow European citizens 🇪🇺
It's taken me an hour to catch up as switched off around 10.30pm.
I don't know what to think anymore. It's such a mess.
The leave march was an embarrassment yesterday.

FishesaPlenty · 30/03/2019 09:24

I heard an expert on the radio say it's built into EU law that art 50 can only be triggered once.

No, you've not heard that from anyone who could be described as an expert.

NigellasGuest · 30/03/2019 09:24

What would happen in a general election? I cant imagine people voting either Tory or labour at the
moment, except for extremists at either end.

RedToothBrush · 30/03/2019 09:27

www.newsletter.co.uk/news/sam-mcbride-forsaken-by-the-tory-right-the-dup-could-now-back-the-softest-of-brexits-1-8870908/amp?__twitter_impression=true
Sam McBride: Forsaken by the Tory right, the DUP could now back the softest of Brexits

Fabulous piece on the DUP and its priorities which makes the point that ultimately at the last, the DUP is pragmatic in nature and only ever had one red line: treating NI the same as the rest of the UK.

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