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Brexit

Westminstenders: Happy Brexit Day!

989 replies

RedToothBrush · 28/03/2019 22:01

Happy Brexit day!

Oh wait. No its not.

May looks like she is going to bring the MVIII (Meaningful Vote 3) tomorrow minus the PD (political declaration).

The legalities of this are questionable should the vote pass. The MV needs to have an accompanying PD, by law under the terms of the Withdrawal Act.

That's kind of irrelevant given the likelihood of the deal passing anyway. The DUP have apparently negotiated a 'Stormont Lock' to get more assurances, only for them promptly to say there's no chance of them voting for the deal anyway.

The vote is all about Labour v Conservatives and where we can lay the blame for no deal in two weeks time.

Meanwhile we are already into a prolonged Tory Leader Election with all its glorious gentlemanly behaviour.

Anyway its time for extra time and national riots for delaying Brexit.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 29/03/2019 17:14

The Dodds statement is indeed a potential gamechanger.

Obviously the BBC haven't mentioned a word.

DGRossetti · 29/03/2019 17:15

We had a chance to fix our FPTP system, which was bottled by the main arties, so fuck them, and fuck their having to do deals.

It's richly deserved that 2017 failed to return a majority, and even as I type, no one is going to predict anything different for the next election.

If politicians won't fix our electoral system, then it serves them right that it keeps delivering shit results. Especially as we have all been subject to that droning mantra that FPTP "delivers strong governments" with a snarky aside at Italy (for example) for endless coalitions.

TheElementsSong · 29/03/2019 17:18

Misti yes, I gathered they were proposing the butchering of the Mayor of London Shock Wondering about posting the link to the Brexit Rally thread, but I suppose it would be unnecessarily inflammatory?

Littlespaces · 29/03/2019 17:19

I feel utterly exhausted by the events this afternoon.

I want to feel hopeful but then I over think it and scare myself.

DGRossetti · 29/03/2019 17:21

yes, I gathered they were proposing the butchering of the Mayor of London

I once asked if it was possible to libel someone in code and was told by a barrister it was (and that was that).

I wonder if being in a foreign language is any defence to the laws around threatening communications ?

The80sweregreat · 29/03/2019 17:21

The DUP policies are very unpalatable ( to me anyway) but they still get votes so they must be very persuasive with some people.
I wasn't aware of them much till the last election ( I had heard of them but that's it)

DGRossetti · 29/03/2019 17:25

.

Westminstenders: Happy Brexit Day!
SusanWalker · 29/03/2019 17:27

Alistair Campbell was saying a few days ago that the DUP are losing funding, as NI business is not happy about the possibility of a hard border.

DGRossetti · 29/03/2019 17:28

Marina Hyde on top form

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/29/tory-leadership-contest-brexit-conservative-party?CMP=share_btn_tw

Article in whole ...

theguardian.com

There’s a photo from Pompeii that’s been doing the internet rounds a while, showing the plaster cast of a naked man. He appears to have died masturbating, even as he must have known the Vesuvian ash-cloud was approaching. Did he? Science says it’s a bit more complicated than that – but science isn’t important right now, because in every psychological aspect, that guy is the Conservative party. No matter what holy terror was raining down upon our land, no matter what the peril, the Conservative party would always decide to crack out a leadership contest.

And so, inevitably, to the situation in which we find ourselves at this moment of national crisis, with Theresa May having agreed to depart. The mad bastards of the Tory party are at it again, in a competition you should think of as Mastershit: The Professionals. I collect the full range of Franklin Mint commemorative crockery for every Tory leadership battle. So if you need a vignette to remind you how the last one unfolded, there was one day when Andrea Leadsom went so fully Handmaid’s Tale on May in an interview for the Times that the paper was only able to give a side column to fellow contender Stephen Crabb being a sex case.

Without further ado, then, let’s take a look at the few potential runners and riders. These are in no particular order, but we’re starting with Liam Fox on the basis that he’s been a candidate in every Conservative leadership contest since 1872. Liam Fox is the bowl of carrot sticks on the table at your child’s birthday party. Why bother to even put it out, given that you know no one likes it, wants it, or ever eats it? Unclear; but you do it every time. Afterwards, you sigh: “Oh well, it’s something to go with that chicken, I suppose,” or make it foreign secretary.

Next: treachery’s Michael Gove. Michael is one of those politicians who we keep being told are indicating their prime ministerial readiness by going for a run. The same was being said of Jeremy Corbyn this week, who’s apparently “in training for power with 15km runs”. What’s that got to do with the price of rice? Mo Farah might as well prepare for races by taking a coherent Brexit position.

Elsewhere in the field, it’s incredible that “LET MY PEOPLE GO” was not even Boris Johnson’s maddest Telegraph column this week. Here’s a more recent one: “This was the Friday when Charles Moore’s retainers were meant to be weaving through the moonlit lanes of Sussex, half blind with scrumpy, singing Brexit shanties at the tops of their voices and beating the hedgerows with staves.” If Westminster was Gotham, Johnson would be in Arkham Asylum.

Moving on, Amber Rudd might as well run for leadership of the Jedi High Council, so let’s proceed to Dominic Raab – the man with the slightly frightened child in his eyes. As I type this, Dominic is now voting for the deal he resigned to oppose, having negotiated that deal in the first place. He spent most of the week reckoning we should go back to the EU over the backstop, I mean … Dominic? DOMINIC? It’s now not so much that that ship has sailed, more that it has sailed, hit an iceberg, sunk, and formed the basis for a myriad books and dramas, culminating in the biggest-grossing movie of all time. WHICH BIT OF THIS JOURNEY DID YOU MISS? You were Brexit secretary. You were literally on deck with Michel Barnier while the band was playing.

Next up: the Saj. I haven’t suited up, so I can’t dive fully into the matter of the 120,000 or so Conservative members who form the electorate for this competition, whom social attitude surveys reveal to be vastly out of kilter with the members of all other political parties and the electorate as a whole. Suffice to say Sajid Javid might feel he has to be twice as artless about “Asian paedophiles”, and twice as morally weak over the fate of Isis Vicky Pollard just to get them to consider him. His conference speech barely half-filled the hall. Members won’t have liked the £1,700-a-night luxury safari holiday he was summoned back from at Christmas, but the unconscionable death of an infant British citizen in a refugee camp will doubtless be viewed as a plus.

On a sunnier note, we’ve already covered Andrea Leadsom’s lavish qualifications for the job, but Brexit’s Oxo mum has recently snazzed up her act with a series of Sandy-from-Grease leather jackets. Andrea used to love John Travolta, until she heard some things.

Onwards, then, to Jeremy Hunt. Every Tory member will have read Moneyball like six times, so they’ll know the folly of picking someone simply on the basis they look like a prime minister, much in the way that you go wrong if you pick baseball players who simply look like ballplayers. Deeper analysis of Jeremy’s on-base percentage shows that he is loathed only by people who have had any contact, at all, at any level, with the health service of which he was in charge for six years.

Given his former permanent secretary at Dexeu judged that David Davis “could hardly be bothered to go to Brussels”, I can hardly be bothered to assess his chances. In any case, I defer to the late great Simon Hoggart, who characterised Davis’s decades-ago stint in the territorial SAS as “strangling the Queen’s enemies with piano-wire, but only at weekends”.

What about Matt Hancock? Look, Matt Hancock strikes me as the sort of nice-enough chap who’d wander into the middle of some Westeros power-play and go: “Guys, I’m sure there’s a more positive way we could sort this out.” If anyone finds a way to identify dragon-incinerated remains, please could they contact the Department of Health.

Ditto Gavin Williamson, described in the Mail this week as possessing “matinee-idol good looks”. Which matinee? The teenage star of Dude, Where’s My Frigate?, Gavin was spat out by the Hollywood dream factory and forced to make his way as a fireplace salesman. Since becoming defence secretary, he has attempted to start beef with Russia (twice), China, Spain, and his mate Dan in a game of Call of Duty: Black Ops. Definitely vote for him if you like guys who describe other guys as “bloody good news”.

Who’s next? I feel like I always want to know less about Liz Truss, whose Instagram account indicates a belief she is some kind of Tory influencer. As for David Lidington, I have had three children but I have never found out what exactly a cervix is. It just sounded like something gross I wouldn’t want to know about. Same with a David Lidington. Sorry, but no. Indeed, now I have found out about David Lidington’s views on my reproductive organs, the decision feels doubly vindicated.

Alas, that’s all we’ve got room for. But there are more – so many more, and there always will be. As the de facto show motto goes: “When you play the Game of Thrones, you win, then you get fucked by Europe.” Set your sights on adventure, and prepare for season 80.

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 17:36

Obviously the BBC haven't mentioned a word.

Apart from Nicholas Watts breaking the story on twitter you mean?

In the last few minutes.

And I know it takes time for BBC reporters to tweet something and for it to make the news room itself.

Watch out at 6pm.

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 29/03/2019 17:39

A flowchart to explain where we are and the way forward ...

Westminstenders: Happy Brexit Day!
The80sweregreat · 29/03/2019 17:40

DG ; that made me lol!

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 29/03/2019 17:41

I was talking about tv coverage Red as I was watching tv at the time. And deepest apologies for not knowing immediately that Nicholas Watt was a BBC journo.

DGRossetti · 29/03/2019 17:42

www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/03/29/brexit-day-is-cancelled-may-s-final-deception-falls-apart

Article in whole ...

politics.co.uk
Brexit Day is cancelled: May's final deception falls to pieces
Ian Dunt
9-11 minutes

She had one last grubby trick to pull. As the hours ticked down to the moment Britain was supposed to leave the EU, Theresa May forced another vote on her deal.

She told the Commons it wasn't really her deal at all. She claimed that supporting it would not prevent MPs from altering the overall Brexit package. She pretended that she was just trying to ensure an orderly exit. It was all a lie, nearly every word of it. Each sentence was constructed to mask the reality of what she was pursuing.

In reality, she was trying to fool MPs into eradicating any possible further extensions of Article 50. She was corralling them towards the cliff edge - stripping away alternatives and forcing them to choose between her deal and the abyss.

The strategy was simple but quite effective. She simply split the deal in two.

It is made up of two elements: the withdrawal agreement, which is the legal treaty on the divorce from Europe, and the future relationship document, which is a collection of political promises for the future.

Breaking them off from one another achieved three things. First, it allowed her to put it in front of MPs again, as it sidestepped the Speaker's ruling that she could not keep on putting the same motion to the Commons over and over again. Second, it allowed her to pretend that the eventual future relationship could be negotiated with parliament, in a bid to bring wavering Labour MPs onside. Third, and most importantly, it let her game the extension offer from the EU to her own grim advantage.

Brussels had offered two separate extension deadlines. The first, which applied if she got her deal through, was a technical extension. It would last until May 22nd and give time for the government to pass the legislation needed to enact her deal at a domestic level. The second, which applied if no deal had been agreed, lasted until April 12th.

Both dates were defined by the European elections, which are tabled for May 23rd. The EU cannot allow the UK to remain a member of the EU after that date unless it takes part, or else it risks its parliament being illegally constituted. So the first extension was based on the date of the election. The second extension was based on the last date the UK would need to pass laws so it could take part in them. In reality, the EU expects Britain to make a further request before this date if there is no deal, at which point a longer extension is likely to be offered.

But there was a wrinkle in the text which May took full advantage of: the definition of 'deal' in the EU position was just the withdrawal agreement, not the future relationship document. All May had to do was get that part through. Then she could work down the clock until April 12th and, once that date was passed, it would no longer be possible for the UK to take part in the elections. That would put her exactly where she wanted to be. No further extensions to Article 50 would be possible. May 22nd would become an immovable exit day.

Instead of putting forward her deal again, she would treat today's vote as validation and simply lay down the legislation turning it into domestic law. There'd be no more escape routes. All the promises and assurances would be gone. She would be able to threaten MPs that they had to back her plan or accept the abyss. It was a clever and deeply cynical bit of procedural deception.

This tactic brought countless hardline Brexiters onside. Jacob Rees Mogg, Boris Johnson, Dominic Raab and countless others fell into line. But they weren't really supporting the deal. Their change of heart was as misleading as the prime minister's offer.

"It is very painful to vote for this deal," Johnson said. "But I hope we can now work together to remedy its defects, avoid the backstop trap and strive to deliver the Brexit people voted for." But the backstop, as he knew, was an integral part of the deal. He clearly intended to sabotage the withdrawal agreement he was voting for. Iain Duncan Smith had the same idea, as did Raab. It was even being not-so-subtly promoted by Brexit secretary Stephen Barclay.

Their plan was to back the withdrawal agreement, wait for April 12th to pass, then attack the legislation - either defeating it or simply holding it up until Britain finally fell out the EU on May 22nd. May had made another Faustian pact, her second in a week. Both her and the ERG were cooperating on ruling out any further extensions of Article 50. Then they would go to war with each other once their mutual enemies in the Remain and Soft Brexit camps had been defeated.

The cynicism and basic failure of patriotic responsibility is almost beyond comprehension. The whole status of the nation - its legal structure, its trading systems, its regulatory arrangements, its livelihood, its reputation, and the legal status of millions of the people who live in it - all of it was being put at stake in some demented game of Chicken between Downing Street and its backbenchers.

But that was all for later. For today, they worked together in a last attempt to neutralise parliament.

As the day wore on, it started to look perilously close. One after another, the ERG folded. It was a grim spectacle, watching all these men who talk of nothing else but their love of country suddenly back a deal they said sold the nation into slavery. In the morning, reports started swirling around Westminster that Labour MPs with Leave constituencies were going to buckle. For a couple of hours, it seemed like all might be lost.

But then the tide turned. The DUP held firm. A number of hardline ERG figures, like John Baron, John Redwood and Bernard Jenkins, refused to move. Labour MPs consolidated. Many had been put off by May's promise to quit on Monday, which meant that voting for the deal cleared the way for hardline Brexiters like Johnson to take the leadership position. Once again, the prime minister's catastrophically inept tactical gambits prove the best opposition to her intentions.

The government was defeated by 286 votes to 344. A total of 34 Tories rebelled - some from the ERG, some from the moderate wing. It was down from 75 last time and 115 the time before that. Only a handful of Labour MPs switched.

May stood up afterwards and, in her usual way, without even a glimmer of contrition or self-awareness, castigated parliament for opposing her. "The implications of the House'’s decision are grave," she said. "I fear we are reaching the limits of this process."

But in truth, it was a profound moment of defeat. This was her last-gasp effort. Where can she go now? Bercow will not allow her to put the deal forward again, either in full or as a withdrawal agreement. She's pretty much out of tricks.

On Monday, MPs take control again. There will be a second day to debate and vote on Brexit alternatives. The results from this week showed that a customs union has a lot of support, as does a public vote on the deal. Others are talking about trying to combine the customs union proposal with the single market. Some want a general election.

All of these ideas have flaws. But every single one of them is better than where we are now. And crucially, all require that we extend Article 50 for a longer period, probably until the end of the year.

That is the next stage of this process: Finding a potential solution and taking it to the EU as part of the extension request. Customs union and single market changes require an alteration of the future relationship document, which takes time to negotiate. A referendum or general election take time to hold. Whatever happens, a longer extension must now be requested.

That is a huge victory for Remainers and critics of Brexit.

At 11pm tonight, Britain was due to leave the EU. The commemorative T-shirts and plates made for the occasion now look like a bad joke. The parties in Westminster have been cancelled. Over and over again, Brexiters in government sneered at and mocked those who thought it could be prevented. The date was set in stone, like a commandment from God. But when the clock hits 11, nothing will happen. Britain will still be in the EU. They failed.

The grim events of today, the lies and procedural trickery, were a desperate last attempt to kill the insurgency against the government, both from parliament and the popular movement online and on the streets. That failed too.

Now opponents have the wind in their sails. They can secure a longer extension. They can, if they work together and with an open mind, find alternatives on Monday, and force them through. The prime minister's options are limited but theirs are many.

This was supposed to be Brexit day. That's not the way it turned out. Remainers and Soft Brexiters now have the advantage.

DGRossetti · 29/03/2019 17:44

Apart from Nicholas Watts breaking the story on twitter you mean? In the last few minutes. And I know it takes time for BBC reporters to tweet something and for it to make the news room itself.

Ah, I'm not really a Twitterer - despite having had an account for over 10 years ...

Loletta · 29/03/2019 17:45

"
On a sunnier note, we’ve already covered Andrea Leadsom’s lavish qualifications for the job, but Brexit’s Oxo mum has recently snazzed up her act with a series of Sandy-from-Grease leather jackets."

LOL at the leather jackets. I was also.thinking WTF

ElenadeClermont · 29/03/2019 18:02

So is the supply and confidence agreement over? Is the government falling?

woman19 · 29/03/2019 18:07

Good afternoon to hide bad news.

@PickardJE
Vote Leave has dropped its appeal against the Electoral Commission, the elections watchdog has announced

For £61 000 a kingdom was (nearly Wink) lost.

Westminstenders: Happy Brexit Day!
The80sweregreat · 29/03/2019 18:07

Marina Hyde and John Crace are the best journalists out there.
Both make me smile.

prettybird · 29/03/2019 18:08

I wonder what May decided at the last minute to cut out of her closing speech? Hmm Apparently it's really unusual for such a speech to be finished 3 minutes early. Confused

She must have realised it was going down badly.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 29/03/2019 18:08

This is why I can't be happy at Mays deal being defeated today

But would you have been happy if it hadn’t been defeated? Interested to know because I honesty can’t work out how I’m feeling right now. I felt elation immediately after the vote and then crashed thinking ‘fuck, now she’s going to go full-on No Deal’.

And now I’m just confused.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 29/03/2019 18:12

Much earlier in the thread a poster - I think it was Bercowssilktie but may be wrong - mentioned having their EU flag on display outside their house. I wish I lived somewhere I felt I could do that. I found myself deliberately turning my EU t-shirt inside out before hanging it on the line in case a neighbour spotted it...

67chevvyimpala · 29/03/2019 18:18

I'm watching bohemian rhapsody and pretending that the UK parliament isn't full of venal, self serving, muling, thick as pig shit, partisan, quisling douchbags.

I recommend it.

Freddie singing "love of my life" is a wonderful, life affirming thing ❤

Icantreachthepretzels · 29/03/2019 18:19

The way I see it - had the deal been passed today then that would have been the end. I think the Ian Dunt article sums it up pretty well. The ERG would have led us towards their wet dream Singapore on Thames brexit and ripped up any agreements along the way. That would have been set in stone.

Now it is still all to play for.

We may still crash out on the 12th. But importantly, we don't crash out with the ERG having the whip hand, which we would if we passed the deal and they the ripped everything apart. Had the deal passed today we may have still crashed out on the 22nd of May - with the ERG firmly in control. Even if exit had been orderly - that would have only lasted until the ERG ripped up the W.A.

As it is we may still not crash out at all. We may get a softer brexit. We may get a people's vote.

Today is a victory. Even if tomorrow is a defeat - today cannot be taken from us.

And now the DUP have said they prefer softer options to anything that harms the union. That could prove to be a game changer.

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