The fucking patronising response from the govt to the 6million petition

[Meretricious]

^This Government will not revoke Article 50. We will honour the result of the 2016 referendum and work with Parliament to deliver a deal that ensures we leave the European Union.

It remains the Government’s firm policy not to revoke Article 50. We will honour the outcome of the 2016 referendum and work to deliver an exit which benefits everyone, whether they voted to Leave or to Remain.

Revoking Article 50, and thereby remaining in the European Union, would undermine both our democracy and the trust that millions of voters have placed in Government.

The Government acknowledges the considerable number of people who have signed this petition. However, close to three quarters of the electorate took part in the 2016 referendum, trusting that the result would be respected. This Government wrote to every household prior to the referendum, promising that the outcome of the referendum would be implemented. 17.4 million people then voted to leave the European Union, providing the biggest democratic mandate for any course of action ever directed at UK Government.

British people cast their votes once again in the 2017 General Election where over 80% of those who voted, voted for parties, including the Opposition, who committed in their manifestos to upholding the result of the referendum.

This Government stands by this commitment.

Revoking Article 50 would break the promises made by Government to the British people, disrespect the clear instruction from a democratic vote, and in turn, reduce confidence in our democracy. As the Prime Minister has said, failing to deliver Brexit would cause “potentially irreparable damage to public trust”, and it is imperative that people can trust their Government to respect their votes and deliver the best outcome for them.

Department for Exiting the European Union.^

Oh where do I start.

Only those who are afraid of change have brainwashed themselves into thinking they will be poorer after UK leaves the EU.

Errr what? So we are going to be richer are we?

Of course we will be poorer . To deny this is utterly deluded (and absurd).

Do any other posters think we will be economically the same or richer?

Even the government's impact assessments (which it tried to suppress) show the range of how much poorer we will all be.

We were the fifth richest country before all this mess. Where does pizza think we will ascend to now in the world rankings - 4th,3rd,2nd maybe 1st?!

The only people who think we will be richer are those who ignore evidence - which is everywhere.

Does anyone seriously think the following have all been brainwashed? Just a few examples as well as the government :

•	The chief exec of the CBI
•	Chief economist at the CBI, 
•	The TUC
•	The OECD
•	Leading economists at London School of Economics
•	The head of the food and drink federation
•	Head of the road haulage association 
•	Professor of public policy at Cambridge.
•	Head of macroeconomics at the Centre for Economics and Business Research.
•	chief economist at EY.
•	Head of Monetary policy committee 
•	director at the National Institute of Economic and Social Research
•	chief economist at the Joseph Rowntree Foundation,
•	director of the network Policy Research in Macroeconomics.
•	Heads of Sainsbury’s, Asda, Marks and Spencer and Waitrose said
•	Head of consultancy Alpha Economics.
•	Chief economic strategist at Netwealth.
•	Trade economist who runs Coriolis Technologies.

As I have said on here a far better Leave argument is yes everyone will be poorer -but it’s worth it for some nebulous other ‘benefit’.

As TM said people voted for the pain. That's a much better argument than saying you know better about economics and trade than all the overwhelming majority people with skills and experience in those fields.

EU economy is shrinking relative to the rest of the World. In 1980 when EU was made of 9 countries it formed about 25% of World GDP. In 2018 EU GDP is about 16% of World GDP even though it has been expanded to 28 countries. So where is the added value of allowing so many poorer countries into the EU?

UK has worlds 5th largest GDP, but it’s Purchase Power Parity is 9th in the World. How can that be? Answer is that it is subsiding other poorer countries in the EU as EU is a net contributor and some EU countries are net takers.

I worked in Bulgaria before it became an EU member. Income tax rate was 30%. After becoming an EU member it income tax rate is a flat 10% irrespective of how much you earn.

So the taxes in Bulgaria go down whilst those in UK go up. Nonsense or what?

Brings me to my favourite question. How does a wealthy person stand to gain by joining up with a poor person? I can see the advantage for the poor person, but no advantage for the wealthy person.

Purchase Power parity

Oh for god's sake Pizza.

Are you really trying to say the U.K. spending 0.7% of GDP on EU membership hampered its economic performance? *
*
And you say others have been brainwashed? Have you never wondered why your co BeLeavers constantly issue rhetoric about the tiny 0.7% of GDP. And you believe them?

The reality is that their real concern is slashing the big orange section in the attached chart. UK politicians driving Brexit resent 'their money' being used for expenditure on health, welfare and education - things that they don't use. These sums are a thorn in the side of the people pushing for Brexit. Look at their voting records.

Oh and contrary to popular belief domestic governments set income tax rates.

So the Bulgarian government decides its income tax system.

The UK decides it's income tax rates. Nothing to do with the EU.

The UK decides it's income tax rates. Nothing to do with the EU.

It's always been... SOVEREIGN

EU economy is shrinking relative to the rest of the World

Terrible argument that shows you to be economically illiterate.

The US economy is also shrinking relative to the world economy, as is the Australian economy, the Japanese economy and the economies of all other developed countries outside the EU.

{What is the benefit of a wealthy person joining up with a poor person? I can see the benefit for the poor person, but none at all for the wealthy person.}

You are obviously failing to understand the purpose of the EU. It is about people, and the wish to improve the lives of everyone.
With your attitude you should go and live in Saudi or somewhere that is not interested in enabling everyone to have the best life possible. Of course it is difficult to make it happen, and with your shit attitude it makes it less likely to be achieved.
Maybe you should visit countries that are seriously poor. You can then see what humanity is about. If you go to visit someone, you will be offered food and drink, even if they only have enough for the day, so they will be going hungry the day after you are there. And yet, they can still see joy in life and happiness being with others.
Quoting raw GDP figures is a complete nonsense if you are looking at the fundamentals of the EU. You should be looking at these figures, and comparing how the standards of living of the whole population can be compared and you will get an idea of how 'good' or 'corrupt' the government of that country really is.
You don't have to have a lot of money to be happy with your life and it could be argued that rampant expansion of an economy is not good for the planet. China's growth has been phenomenal, but at a massive cost to the planet. I think they are building massive coal fired power stations at around 1 per month.

Is this the same petition Mumsnetters we're going to have their children sign 🙄

*were

What is the benefit of a wealthy person joining up with a poor person? I can see the benefit for the poor person, but none at all for the wealthy person.

I don't see the benefit of poor people joining up with the wealthy?

What was the benefit for voting how Boris Johnson and JRM etc wanted? Google their voting records!

•		Consistently voted against increasing the tax rate applied to income over £150,000 

•			Almost always voted against a banker’s bonus tax

•	Consistently voted against raising welfare benefits at least in line with prices 
•			Consistently voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability 
•			Consistently voted for a reduction in spending on welfare benefits

What is the benefit to the poorer person in this support exactly?

I strongly dislike some of the pro-Brexit arguments made on this thread. If we’re going to debate the EU could we please have some semblance of decency and open-mindedness about our European neighbours. They’re people just like us.

Having said that, this Remainer argument is depressing:

The EU was created to avoid another devastating war. It was also to make sure Germany's interests would be intertwined with those of its neighbours. Destroying it isn't very smart.

If Germany is a pyschopathic nation beyond change, we should be dissolving it, not giving it a place as the strongest voice in the EU. And the US kept the peace in Europe after WWII - and paid for it. It’s true that the Coal and Steel Community was based on control of the materials of war, but it’s long gone and it’s historical purpose is now irrelevant.

And the EU failed miserably to contain or solve the massive conflict on its doorstep in the FYR. That took NATO, i.e. the US.

Let’s be sensible about the benefits of the EU, of which there are many.

{And the US kept the peace in Europe after WWII - and paid for it.}

No, the US LOANED stonking amounts of money for reconstruction after WW2. The UK only finished paying for this loan a few years back.
The UK managed to 'spend' quite a bit of it trying to hang on to colonies. The rest of Europe used it to actually reconstruct and as the ALLIES had done such a good job of trashing so much European infrastructure they 'benefited' in almost complete renewal with latest technology.
The Germans were almost totally humiliated and have produced a society that is more fair than many as a result.
While Germany may be dominant in for example car manufacturing, there is no point in doing this of their neighbours can't afford to buy them.

My last sentence was relevant to Brexit in that while Fox may be doing 'deals' with Africa, in general Africans are not wealthy enough to buy a significant amount of what the UK could sell them.

Lol that the 6 million petition counts. It was voted on in 2016. The govts role is to carry out Brexit. Individual meltdowns don’t count. It’s a done deal.

Also, how do you know the UK is poorer on leaving the EU? You don’t know. No one knows that, as it hasn’t happened.
Get the facts right.
Also all of you view leaving the EU or remaining through a certain “lens” or viewpoint on what you think is truth. The problem is your arguments all come from this viewpoint and your arguments may sound great but will in reality fall flat. You have skewed views so no matter what you say you will think the worst, but the worst hasn’t happened and actually I don’t think it will. So stop speculating nonsense and scare mongering. Brexit was voted. It will go through.

OP do you actually know how small a percentage 6m is of the voting population?

No, the US LOANED stonking amounts of money for reconstruction after WW2. The UK only finished paying for this loan a few years back.
The UK managed to 'spend' quite a bit of it trying to hang on to colonies.

I wasn’t talking about post-war loans. I was talking about the dozens of thousands of US troops and mountains of equipment stationed here. Mostly the policy was to oppose the Eastern Bloc of course. But it was always recognised as a deterrent to German (or other European nations’) military belligerence.

{Also, how do you know the UK is poorer on leaving the EU? You don’t know. No one knows that, as it hasn’t happened.
Get the facts right.
Also all of you view leaving the EU or remaining through a certain “lens” or viewpoint on what you think is truth. The problem is your arguments all come from this viewpoint and your arguments may sound great but will in reality fall flat. You have skewed views so no matter what you say you will think the worst, but the worst hasn’t happened and actually I don’t think it will. So stop speculating nonsense and scare mongering.}

Personally I don't give a shit what you think, but stamping about waving flags and shouting slogans isn't going to put food on the table.
What is true is that there has been no suggestion of how the UK is going to get out of the hole it has taken itself into. How come 17 million 'Leave' voters who have no plan, and can't even agree what a 'Brexit' looks like are better informed than the 500 Million Europeans who think the UK has lost it's marbles?

{And the EU failed miserably to contain or solve the massive conflict on its doorstep in the FYR. That took NATO, i.e. the US.}

Conflating something that was and is civil war with actions between EU countries is not relevant. NATO is not the US.

The EU does not seek to overturn the democracy of any of the sovereign member states, hence it is standing back while the UK destroys itself, it can only do so much.

Conflating something that was and is civil war with actions between EU countries is not relevant. NATO is not the US.

But the EU boasts about its maintenance of defence and security, including co-operation internationally. Have a look at the EU’s Foreign and Security Policy. The EU did try to intervene politically in the Balkans but managed absolutely nothing (hampered by Germany’s hasty recognition of Croatia).

You can’t just point to the good bits and successes of the EU and discount the failures and abuses.

I voted remain. I would always vote remain. My view is that the UK should seek change and improvement from the inside. But one of the things that bedevils this subject is that too often it’s treated as being black and white, good v evil - whichever side is making the argument. The real world just isn’t like that: pesky shades of gray.

I don't understand how TM can be trying to take her withdrawal agreement back for a fourth vote because she hasn't got the response she wanted the first 3 times, but there's no chance of a second referendum because only the first vote counts?? Just making up their own rules to suit them? How can anyone have any confidence in them any more?

When you have twats like Farage as a MEP, it is not surprising things are difficult.
Failure to try guarantees failure.
Now, a day after the deadline for leaving, the UK government still haven't defined what a Brexit is. These are the people responsible for UK's prosperity and they have NO CLUE how to achieve it.
It is only the EU 'helping out' that will stop the total disaster that a 'no deal' Brexit will bring.

Funnystory.
The WA is the only way the UK can leave without a 'crash out'.
The UK HoL have voted on it without reading and understanding it and they have pronounced it unacceptable. If the UK wants to eat, the EU have been handed all the cards by the people in Westminster, due to the UK infighting and multiple conflicts of interest.

Nobody can know for certain what will happen after UK leaves the EU. Many conflicting views from everyone. Former Bank of England Governor, Mervyn King, thinks trading on WTO will be the same as remain? Others think it will be a disaster. Hard to know who to listen to anymore.

www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/09/11/the-garbled-nonsense-of-jacob-rees-mogg-s-new-press-release

Fucling hell Pegsinarow. If there is another referendum all those facts will make no difference again as the likes of the ERG will just lie and lie again.