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Brexit

Westminstenders: Erskine Mayhem

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 19/03/2019 09:55

John Bercow has stepped in. We've long made the point, that the position of Speaker was utterly crucial to the outcome of Brexit. However this ruling was long warned as a possibility. It was somewhat overlooked by all (including me).

We are now faced with the bizarre narrative that May was just about to be able to get her deal through, and it's now simply Bercow who has tried to sabotage Brexit.

The reality is that his ruling has the effect of making BOTH no deal And a lengthy extension (possibly with a PV) much more likely.

May now has to embrace one of these option (by accident or design) or find a way to substantially change the terms of her deal as put to the Commons, either through negotiation with the EU or bolting something significantly different to her deal like a variation of the Kyle Amendment (a PV based on her deal or remain). Or find a majority to overturn the standing order that Bercow has cited as the reason for his block.

This block also might apply to the Benn amendment (indicative votes) or other PV amendments. Which could equally be problematic going forward.

In reality Bercow has upped the stakes and forced May to do something meaningful rather than simply holding a gun to MPs heads to vote. Hurrah for parliamentary Sovereignty and limiting the abuse of power of the executive!?!

It's a completely neutral move in practice. The HoC has tied itself in knots with how it's voted for political reason rather than for the national interest. The British Constitution has just stood up for itself. Bercow is just a useful target to blame for the incompetence of the entire house for the last 3 years.

The billion pound question this morning is where does that now leave us?

The honest answer is I'm damned if I know.

Maybe the EU will come up with a magic bullet for May, maybe the Cabinet can come up with a magic bullet, maybe May will take the political magic bullet of a long extension or revocation or maybe we'll just all shoot ourselves in the head and foot with no deal.

I have no idea.

10 days to go.

Westminstenders: Erskine Mayhem
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67chevvyimpala · 20/03/2019 15:18

Time for podium speech?

DGRossetti · 20/03/2019 15:19

I have vivid memories of when Thatcher resigned. Been looking foreword to it for so long. It was such a hollow victory.

in hindsight, Major was actually a bloody good PM. He started what became the peace process, faced down "the bastards", and had a relatively uneventful premiership. However, someone, Chinese has cursed us somewhere ....

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2019 15:19

Nick Gutteridge@nickgutteridge

Would treat rumour Macron will veto extension with a healthy dose of caution

Undoubtedly true that, as 1 diplo put it, France is 'really, really strict' on UK in internal EU meetings.

But vetoing is an extreme act.

2nd diplo says: 'I haven't heard anyone saying no to extension.'

< just to the 30 June date ?
and did he mean what he said ? >

DGRossetti · 20/03/2019 15:19

May's letter has arrived 'too late' for EU leaders to make a decision on an Article 50 extension at tomorrow's summit

Remember that spoof upthread about trusting Grayling to fax it ?

StripeyChina · 20/03/2019 15:20

I can't see Teflon Teresa resigning somehow...
(a blatant attempt to tempt Fates...)

Littlespaces · 20/03/2019 15:20

There's one excuse to prevent the march.

Let them bloody try.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2019 15:21

Nick Gutteridge@nickgutteridge

As well as warning UK faces choice of extension to May 23 or at least end of year Comm note contains political conditions EU set to attach.
< so much for not being allowed. Practical politics trumps theory >

If long UK must abstain during EU decision making on budget & internal appointments.
< wouldn't be relevant for a short extension >_
_
Also can't be used to renegotiate Withdrawal Agreement.

PestyMachtubernahme · 20/03/2019 15:22

May's letter has arrived 'too late' for EU leaders to make a decision on an Article 50 extension at tomorrow's summit

Sums the whole thing up Shock

Please can we have huge Parliamentary reforms, please

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2019 15:22

DG I immediately thought of the John Bull / Garius spoof thread
I always feared it could turn out to be prophecy

67chevvyimpala · 20/03/2019 15:23

Agree with DG on thatchers resignation.

I was 18. And it came on the news whilst I was sat in a local hospital which is now closed getting a splint fitted.

Everyone cheered :)

67chevvyimpala · 20/03/2019 15:24

Who - if anyone - is today's John major?

PestyMachtubernahme · 20/03/2019 15:25

video.consilium.europa.eu/en/webcast/675f39ea-3b14-4e8a-8b1f-75c333acfb94
Tusk statement
4pm UK time

GroovieGazelloo · 20/03/2019 15:25

^Nick Gutteridge@nickgutteridge

Would treat rumour Macron will veto extension with a healthy dose of caution
^
Undoubtedly true that, as 1 diplo put it, France is 'really, really strict' on UK in internal EU meetings.^^

Haha. Methinks it might be wise to take Macron seriously. He's just had a recent Gilet Jaune crash course on how to stand up for his beliefs - rounded off with a skiing weekend.
Methinks he's pumped up and ready to go defend the EU.

TheElementsSong · 20/03/2019 15:26

I found the Leavers BTW, they're on an AIBU thread saying exactly the same stuff they've been saying for 3 years ("wah-wah-wah-bullying-insults-victims, we knew what we voted for, Brexit would have been Great if it wasn't for " etc)

DarlingNikita · 20/03/2019 15:27

in hindsight, Major was actually a bloody good PM.

I agree. He just got a bad rap at the time.

I was in secondary school when Maggie resigned. I vividly remember my usually hangdog geography teacher fair skipping down the corridor, beaming.

DGRossetti · 20/03/2019 15:28

Please can we have huge Parliamentary reforms, please

Well, absent sortition:

Bicameral chamber with Directly elected HoS.
Elections by PR.
Lower house directly elected from constituency ballot.
Upper house drawn from run-off candidates in ballot.
1/3 of chamber up for election ever 2 years.
HoS elected for 5 year term and cannot have previously served in lower office.

No person may serve more than two consecutive terms in office.

Enough to be going with ?

(You have 3 hours and should complete all sections below. In cases where you are unable to complete the question fully you may submit an overall summary of your thinking. Grin )

tobee · 20/03/2019 15:28

I was at work when Thatcher resigned. I ran up the stairs three at a time to tell my boss. By the time I got there though it was "hooray, urghhh!" The damage had been done.

Notwithstanding Major being pro Europe.

DGRossetti · 20/03/2019 15:29

I found the Leavers BTW, they're on an AIBU thread saying exactly the same stuff they've been saying for 3 years

Speaks volumes they couldn't find this one Grin

SparklySneakers · 20/03/2019 15:31

Yeah sprouting "you lot" at us Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2019 15:31

DG and a federal structure
So nation-changing decisions, e.g. Brexit, going to war, require the consent of at least 3 of the 4 nations

GroovieGazelloo · 20/03/2019 15:32

Elements - never mind about them. They're just tired and grumpy after their walk.

Westminstenders: Erskine Mayhem
DGRossetti · 20/03/2019 15:32

I went to the US the week Thatcher resigned. Which led to surreal conversations in Alabama strip bars about why we [Brits] had ousted the best damn politician on the plant. A particularly pointed statement since Bush had taken over from Reagan.

I still can't believe Thatchers ousting was a surprise. It was predicted - almost to the hour - by Gore Vidal in 1988. I think the interviewer was Parkinson, but whoever it was, they gently ribbed Vidal ... almost going Chinny Reck-on. Yet another example of people being told, but not listening.

tobee · 20/03/2019 15:33

Keir Starmer giving it to the man!

Tanith · 20/03/2019 15:34

“ I actually wanted Theresa May to become Tory leader. Fool me once ....”

Not at all, DGR - remember what was offered as an alternative!

havingtochangeusernameagain · 20/03/2019 15:34

May's letter has arrived 'too late' for EU leaders to make a decision on an Article 50 extension at tomorrow's summit

Well I have to say that sounds like it's nonsense. They knew it was coming, and presumably they've already formed a view, so they just need to discuss it?

Even if they do agree it tomorrow/this week, how on earth do we get the exit date taken out of the EU Withdrawal Act by next Friday? I'm not sure parliament can work that fast and that's if they don't decide to vote to put a spanner in the works, again.