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Brexit

Westminstenders: Erskine Mayhem

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 19/03/2019 09:55

John Bercow has stepped in. We've long made the point, that the position of Speaker was utterly crucial to the outcome of Brexit. However this ruling was long warned as a possibility. It was somewhat overlooked by all (including me).

We are now faced with the bizarre narrative that May was just about to be able to get her deal through, and it's now simply Bercow who has tried to sabotage Brexit.

The reality is that his ruling has the effect of making BOTH no deal And a lengthy extension (possibly with a PV) much more likely.

May now has to embrace one of these option (by accident or design) or find a way to substantially change the terms of her deal as put to the Commons, either through negotiation with the EU or bolting something significantly different to her deal like a variation of the Kyle Amendment (a PV based on her deal or remain). Or find a majority to overturn the standing order that Bercow has cited as the reason for his block.

This block also might apply to the Benn amendment (indicative votes) or other PV amendments. Which could equally be problematic going forward.

In reality Bercow has upped the stakes and forced May to do something meaningful rather than simply holding a gun to MPs heads to vote. Hurrah for parliamentary Sovereignty and limiting the abuse of power of the executive!?!

It's a completely neutral move in practice. The HoC has tied itself in knots with how it's voted for political reason rather than for the national interest. The British Constitution has just stood up for itself. Bercow is just a useful target to blame for the incompetence of the entire house for the last 3 years.

The billion pound question this morning is where does that now leave us?

The honest answer is I'm damned if I know.

Maybe the EU will come up with a magic bullet for May, maybe the Cabinet can come up with a magic bullet, maybe May will take the political magic bullet of a long extension or revocation or maybe we'll just all shoot ourselves in the head and foot with no deal.

I have no idea.

10 days to go.

Westminstenders: Erskine Mayhem
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Motheroffourdragons · 20/03/2019 10:45

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NoWordForFluffy · 20/03/2019 10:51

Surely him doing that makes a mockery of the results of the cross party talks the other day? And Labour's own policy regarding Brexit?

TatianaLarina · 20/03/2019 10:54

McDonnell has announced support for SO24 I think.

NuffingChora · 20/03/2019 10:54

Yep Jon Worth on Twitter saying the same thing - support for SO24 from Labour.

TatianaLarina · 20/03/2019 10:55

Yes Labour now backs it unless May makes statement,

Westminstenders: Erskine Mayhem
NuffingChora · 20/03/2019 10:56

Though depends on whether or not there’s a statement from TM - saying what I’m not quite sure... twitter.com/samcoatestimes/status/1108317448745422849?s=21

icannotremember · 20/03/2019 10:57

Anyone else get the feeling that Corbyn's much used jibe against May- "in office but not in power" applies also to him? I think McDonnell is the one who counts these days.

Motheroffourdragons · 20/03/2019 11:11

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frumpety · 20/03/2019 11:13

If those who are threatening a go slow on Yorkshires roads on Friday and Saturday decide to spread the joy further afield, it may make it difficult for many intending to travel to Saturdays march by coach.

To be fair I am not sure anyone would notice a 'go slow' around the A1/M18/M1 in the north on a Friday, would feel very much business as usual Wink

Hasenstein · 20/03/2019 11:14

Oh God, just got a call from BiL in Germany saying that MiL is not expected to live beyond the next 4 weeks and could go at any time.
Waiting for DW to come home so we can discuss what to do. Can we even get out there and would we be able to get back? Plane or ferry (latter easier for us, but not sure if we'll be able to get on).

Worst possible timing, but nothing we can do about that. Tories fucking about, playing games while real life happens to the rest of us. Fuck.

GeistohneGrenzen · 20/03/2019 11:17

Mother Have just now signed it but have the feeling I already signed it a while ago. But what the heck, eh, my sig's been accepted Grin The more the merrier...

Littlespaces · 20/03/2019 11:17

Flowers Hasenstein

Motheroffourdragons · 20/03/2019 11:18

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GeistohneGrenzen · 20/03/2019 11:20

That's dreadful Hasenstein. I hope things work out for you.

Motheroffourdragons · 20/03/2019 11:21

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SingingBabooshkaBadly · 20/03/2019 11:26

So, I’m really losing my grip on developments now. Keep hearing about Common Market 2.0. Is the idea this is something that we could try to negotiate after crashing out?

LouiseCollins28 · 20/03/2019 11:27

Not sure whether this has been picked up on already (these threads move v.fast!) but some interesting comment on another site about how Speaker Bercow is potentially going to enabline the use of a standing order to "test" the will of parlaiment re: Brexit. This from Labour Uncut

labour-uncut.co.uk/2019/03/19/the-headlines-missed-the-big-bercow-intervention-hes-implementing-last-weeks-benn-amendment-the-commons-now-has-the-lead-in-deciding-what-gets-voted-on-for-brexit/

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2019 11:29

Hasenstein 💐

1tisILeClerc · 20/03/2019 11:31

Hasenstein
Sorry to hear this.
Hull to Rotterdam or Zeebrugge if you need to drive. You sleep on the ferry as it is overnight, leaving about 8pm and getting to Rot/Zee at 8 AM.
Direct flights even after 29th SHOULD happen but will probably be chaotic with significant delays as they will be handled by Europe if the UK crashes out.

WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 20/03/2019 11:33

Flowers Hasenstein

TokyoSushi · 20/03/2019 11:34

Alison McGovern used to be on my school bus! She's a good 'un

The80sweregreat · 20/03/2019 11:34

family members of mine voted for the ' common market' in the 70s. my parents didn't and we're very against ( had lived through the war etc)
My ( now very old ) dad voted remain in 2016 other family voted leave and would never be moved.
' A common market' version 2 might work?I've listened to numerous arguments about this and this comes up again and again ' I voted for a common agreement not what it's become now' : it could be a way out of this impasse and these constant arguments?
A new way of trading? A version that we could all agree on?
People on here know more than me but it seems a valid reason to try and get everyone a bit of what they want maybe?
( sorry to sound a bit simplistic about a difficult situation)

havingtochangeusernameagain · 20/03/2019 11:35

Worst possible timing, but nothing we can do about that. Tories fucking about, playing games while real life happens to the rest of us. Fuck

Yep my mum has recently had an operation and the recovery is harder than we thought it would be. She did have a stockpile but she's been using it up while recovering from the op. Now she has a horrible cold as well. I might have to visit her with a car full of food, and then I might not be able to get home again because no petrol! I do wish these politicians would stop messing about with our lives.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2019 11:36

The EU keep saying there is no more negotiation
This is the only WA there is

So, at most we would be talking about renegotiating the PD - the future relationship -
which may be fairly meaningless, since what deal eventually comes out of transition can't be fixed in advance anyway

Also, it may be that the EU have just run out of patience and want a long extension only for a PV with Remain in,
so no negotiation at all until transition

havingtochangeusernameagain · 20/03/2019 11:37

As for the common market version 2 - this would be staying in the customs union - which would also solve the Irish border issue. I have no idea why this isn't an option. Doesn't require freedom of movement, but does stop us making our own trade deals. But it would seem a decent solution and something a lot of leave voters would support - no political union and no FOM. And a lot of remain voters could get behind it because it doesn't trash the economy (as much).

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