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Brexit

Westminstenders: Erskine Mayhem

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 19/03/2019 09:55

John Bercow has stepped in. We've long made the point, that the position of Speaker was utterly crucial to the outcome of Brexit. However this ruling was long warned as a possibility. It was somewhat overlooked by all (including me).

We are now faced with the bizarre narrative that May was just about to be able to get her deal through, and it's now simply Bercow who has tried to sabotage Brexit.

The reality is that his ruling has the effect of making BOTH no deal And a lengthy extension (possibly with a PV) much more likely.

May now has to embrace one of these option (by accident or design) or find a way to substantially change the terms of her deal as put to the Commons, either through negotiation with the EU or bolting something significantly different to her deal like a variation of the Kyle Amendment (a PV based on her deal or remain). Or find a majority to overturn the standing order that Bercow has cited as the reason for his block.

This block also might apply to the Benn amendment (indicative votes) or other PV amendments. Which could equally be problematic going forward.

In reality Bercow has upped the stakes and forced May to do something meaningful rather than simply holding a gun to MPs heads to vote. Hurrah for parliamentary Sovereignty and limiting the abuse of power of the executive!?!

It's a completely neutral move in practice. The HoC has tied itself in knots with how it's voted for political reason rather than for the national interest. The British Constitution has just stood up for itself. Bercow is just a useful target to blame for the incompetence of the entire house for the last 3 years.

The billion pound question this morning is where does that now leave us?

The honest answer is I'm damned if I know.

Maybe the EU will come up with a magic bullet for May, maybe the Cabinet can come up with a magic bullet, maybe May will take the political magic bullet of a long extension or revocation or maybe we'll just all shoot ourselves in the head and foot with no deal.

I have no idea.

10 days to go.

Westminstenders: Erskine Mayhem
OP posts:
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27
67chevvyimpala · 20/03/2019 08:00

I dont agree.

Bojo and his "fuck business" comment and comments about nanzanin ratcliffe should have ended them.

Every decision TM has ever made should have ended them.

Austerity should have ended them.

(Shrug)

TatianaLarina · 20/03/2019 08:03

No Deal takes Tory incompetence to a whole new level though.

NoWordForFluffy · 20/03/2019 08:03

What the EU27 do or don't agree to will be guided by not throwing Ireland under a bus, I'd think. Regardless of what a shit show this is, Ireland does need saving from TM's (and get team's) utter incompetence.

If this has a side effect of saving the UK from itself is something else, but the EU27 really don't want to wreck the GFA.

How are we ever going to negotiate decent trade deals after all this? It's awful. I'm so worried now.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2019 08:04

Tories judge that a long extension will cause an internal civil war
and that their already small membership will disappear - about 90% of them are Brexiters

Brexit is so deep in what passes for their souls that there is genuine fear among Tory bigwigs that their party could be replaced by an openly hard right Brexit party

No Deal might make Tories hated - if they don't mange to blame the EU and Remainers - but they are like Millwall in not caring about that

There are enough masochists who want to return to WW2 rationing & hardships - and are sufficiently insulated themselves from the worst - to give them 30%+ even if they brought back workhouses and poorhouses

TatianaLarina · 20/03/2019 08:04

Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak

Ouch - Minister on PM’s decision to ask only for short delay - ‘Weak, weak, weak. Substantially increases the risk of no deal. Her most craven surrender to the hardliners yet. She knows this is the wrong choice for the country but she’s putting her short term interests first.’

lonelyplanetmum · 20/03/2019 08:06

will cause an internal civil war

Errrr isn't their ongoing acute internecine strife caused by fundamental differences in political viewpoints and vision?

1tisILeClerc · 20/03/2019 08:06

Flowerplower
The BBC had a report on the preparations that Roterdam port was making, best part of a year ago, and it pointed out (as mentioned by the director of the port) that it was hitting the Dutch economy hard equating to around £600 per person in the Netherlands, and that is coming from the Dutch treasury, meaning that teachers and schools etc are seeing cuts (although the Dutch government may not spread it that way).
This is happening across Europe, the stupidity of the UK government is being felt by everyone. Ideal material for extremist groups to pick up and use.

Tanith · 20/03/2019 08:07

Andrea Leadsom, Liam Fox and Chris Grayling left Mrs May in no doubt that they would have to consider quitting the Cabinet if a long delay becomes Government policy.

Genuinely struggling to see the negative aspect of this - why on Earth isn’t TM snatching the opportunity with both hands?!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2019 08:09

Everyone in your social circle may blame the Tories for the effects of No Deal,
but the Tories have escaped the effects so far, just as they have for austerity, for the NHS, police cuts etc

Read even MN - more leftwing than the general public - and you find plenty of posters blaming the previous Labour government for the Tories having to impose austerity and cuts,
or who blame the poor themselves for life choices

e.g. There was that poster Bejam who claimed the EU would be deliberately killing thousands after No Deal if they didn't wave through traffic to avoid port logjams
No acceptance of Brexit being to blame

havingtochangeusernameagain · 20/03/2019 08:11

My Facebook friend in Germany posted how annoyed she is that her tax money is having to go towards preparing for a no deal brexit when it could be spent in other things

Yes that must be really annoying. Mind you those of us in the UK who didn't vote Tory, and voted remain, (and EU citizens who pay taxes but didn't get a vote) are in the same situation - watching our taxes being wasted.

TatianaLarina · 20/03/2019 08:11

No Deal will cause Tory civil war. Half the party are vehemently opposed. It would quite likely split. The Remainers and moderates resign or defect - partly just to save their own reputations.

And the country would turn against them. All the people who have no grasp of what No Deal really means will be in for a nasty shock.

havingtochangeusernameagain · 20/03/2019 08:12

Andrea Leadsom, Liam Fox and Chris Grayling left Mrs May in no doubt that they would have to consider quitting the Cabinet if a long delay becomes Government policy

Sounds like great news all round.

WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 20/03/2019 08:14

Flowers sos

Flowers everyone.

I feel like a rabbit in the headlights. Think I should be adding to the stockpile today but can’t decide where to start Sad

TatianaLarina · 20/03/2019 08:17

Everyone in your social circle may blame the Tories for the effects of No Deal, but the Tories have escaped the effects so far, just as they have for austerity, for the NHS, police cuts etc

Not particularly talking about my social circle. And I don’t think the Tories have got away with austerity - one upshot was the referendum result. Many people wanted to punish the Tories. The reason Labour aren’t doing better in the polls is principally the Corbyn effect imo.

borntobequiet · 20/03/2019 08:21

I saw the facial products I (occasionally) use on offer so bought some extra, then realised when I got home that stockpiling skin toner was a bit over the top. Maybe I will start to look better as a result of Brexit. (I’ve got a few boxes of wine in so hopefully a better beauty routine will counteract the adverse effects on my skin.)

Colourpencils · 20/03/2019 08:22

I'm going on the march Saturday, like I did last October, really just to show the world how much I care than any hope of getting a PV. not sure if that's even a good idea. 9 days to go....how the hell can it be a week Friday Shock

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 20/03/2019 08:26

No Deal will cause Tory civil war

Trouble is lots of things will cause a Tory civil war.

It’s increasingly looking like a no deal or the WA Sad. May is incapable of acting in the long term, everything she’s done has been shortermist to protect the Tory party.

Focalpoint · 20/03/2019 08:28

www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-brexiteers-forgot-about-the-border-1.3831635%3fmode=amp

Oliver Norgrove writes an article in the Irish Times - Q: why brexiteeers forgot about the border? A: because we never think about N.Ireland.

FFS. Published in the Irish paper of record with 9 days to a hard brexit.

While it has a ring of truth about it, it is pretty hollow not to acknowledge the damage your negligence has caused to your neighbor and the "forgotten" region.

Who the hell is this guy anyway?

Tanith · 20/03/2019 08:29

“It used to be said there were two kinds of chairs to go with two kinds of Minister: one sort folds up instantly; the other sort goes round and round in circles.” Bernard Woolley, Yes Minister

RedToothBrush · 20/03/2019 08:31

What WONT cause a Tory Civil War is really the question.

Anyone got an answer?

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lonelyplanetmum · 20/03/2019 08:35

What WONT cause a Tory Civil War is really the question.

Two new parties.

RedToothBrush · 20/03/2019 08:36

Theo Usherwood@theousherwood
Andrea Leadsom: "We are certainly not intending to be fielding candidates (in the European elections)."

Thats interesting.

Other parties seem not to have got that message... And are acting accordingly.

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RedToothBrush · 20/03/2019 08:37

Indeed lonely. Put us out of misery and split.

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TatianaLarina · 20/03/2019 08:40

What WONT cause a Tory Civil War is really the question.

Yep.

WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 20/03/2019 08:41

born ... considered nutritional value of stockpile and ordered foundation and concealer Grin