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Brexit

Westminstenders: Neglectful Drunkeness!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/03/2019 23:04

The HoC has spend the past 3 years in a state of Neglectful Drunkeness.

As it stands less then two weeks from Brexit Day, there is no deal we were promised. The Conservative and Labour Parties are more divided than ever.

The government is in disarray as 8 Cabinet ministers plus the chief whip voted against the Prime Minister including the Brexit Secretary who had minutes earlier argued for an extension only to vote against it. He is now on the brink of resignation.

The DUP look like they may be about to capitulate and vote for a deal. But it may not be enough even then.

This is what the cliff edge looks like.

Who wants to take a closer look?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
36
Sostenueto · 18/03/2019 17:17

She is mean. She is rude. She is cruel. She is stupid. I have heard that from almost everyone who has dealt with her."

Well think Parliament is well aware of thisGrin

BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2019 17:18

... the default if we don't run out of extension time, of course
as No Deal is still the A50 default

DGRossetti · 18/03/2019 17:18

Hmm, what now? Thinking caps on folks. We've got to 'tinker' with WA enough, probably along the GFA-DUP 'lines' or another fundamental change to get WA through.

Er, thinking caps on for Leavers, actually. This remainer has already thought.

Also, you can't really "tinker" with the WA as it's bringing the treaty negotiated with the EU to the house. That's a closed book to the UK now.

Still, I'm sure all Leavers are happy. After all, this wasn't ruled out when they voted, so they must have thought about it ...

prettybird · 18/03/2019 17:18

Letter to the Prime Minister from Nicola Sturgeon today. Seems perfectly reasonable to me Wink

Dear Theresa,
I recognise that this is a critical week for Brexit, ahead of the European Council at the end of the week. It is therefore with concern that I have read press reports over the weekend about offers you may be making to the Democratic Unionist Party, upon whom you rely for a working majority in the House of Commons. As a consequence I wanted to seek clarity and assurance from you at the outset.

Since the EU referendum in 2016 there has been sustained and consistent damage done to the devolution settlement, and to the idea that the UK is a partnership of equal nations. As you are aware, like Northern Ireland, Scotland voted to remain in the European Union.

In the past two years however, Scotland’s wishes and national interests have been roundly ignored and at times treated with contempt by the UK Government.

I now have three further major concerns over what appears, from reports, to be your strategy for securing a majority for your Brexit deal. By according the DUP disproportionate influence, it seems clear that maintaining your majority in the UK Parliament comes before respect for the properly constituted governments across the UK.

Firstly, there must be no question of one political party - the DUP - being represented in talks on the future trade relationship between the UK and EU when other political parties and Devolved Governments are not. As you are aware, in August 2018, the Scottish Government published a paper in respect of our role in International Trade negotiations. There has been no indication that the UK Government is taking these proposals seriously, although there has since been support for a greater role for devolved administrations in trade negotiations from both the International Trade and Scottish Affairs select Committees in the House of Commons. In addition, there have been no meaningful moves to ensure the devolved governments have a properly enhanced role in the next phase of EU-UK negotiations.

Secondly, the UK Government’s proposals to the DUP appear to involve a serious curtailment of the powers of the Scottish Parliament. Indeed in seeking to obtain support for your deal in December the UK Government committed, in the event that the Protocol on Northern Ireland is required, "to ensure that there would be no divergence in the rules applied in Great Britain and Northern Ireland in areas covered by the Protocol” Many of the relevant rules fall within devolved competence and therefore it is not in the gift of the UK Government to unilaterally constrain the powers of the Scottish Parliament in order to strike a deal with the DUP. Continued alignment can only be guaranteed with the full support of the Scottish Government and Parliament. As you will be aware, the Scottish Government continues to be concerned that Scotland will be placed at a disadvantage if your proposals take effect.

Finally, we continue to see decisions from the UK Government which undermine and discredit the existing UK funding framework and which short-change Scotland. In 2017, The UK Government provided an additional £1 billion to Northern Ireland as part of the confidence and supply agreement between the Conservative Party and the Democratic Unionist Party and recently it allocated another £140 million in Northern Ireland’s 2019-20 Budget. These funds were allocated to devolved matters and it is completely unacceptable that these decisions did not result in additional consequentials for Scotland. The UK Government’s actions mean that Scotland has lost out on equivalent funding of around £3.3 billion. The UK Government cannot continue to favour Northern Ireland over the other devolved administrations for short-term political gain and we expect any future funding to be allocated in a fair and transparent manner.

I have said and will continue to say that while there is no broad consensus in the UK Parliament for your Brexit deal, the decision ought to be put back to the people in a second EU referendum - that is the responsible and democratic thing to do. However should the UK continue on a path to exiting the EU, then there must be fair and equal treatment of the four nations of the UK in relation to influence over and a role in the negotiations of the future relationship through the properly constituted devolved institutions.

At present, far from ensuring such fair treatment you appear to be pursuing a path that privileges one political party, further constrains the powers of the Scottish Parliament and short-changes public spending in Scotland. This approach would not be acceptable.

  • Nicola
FusionChefGeoff · 18/03/2019 17:18

That survey from a few pages ago was bizarre - so asked the same question but using different words got a complete reversal of the answer? Did I read that right?

If so then it adds massive ammo to my argument that The People just aren't clever enough to be trusted with this question!

Motheroffourdragons · 18/03/2019 17:19

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

DGRossetti · 18/03/2019 17:19

Again, just a reminder too, for those saying my position is illegitimate, if there is a People's Vote I'm the whom the majority of you need to convince to change my mind.

Depends what the questions are. Would you vote for Leave with WA, or Leave with no-deal ? Pretty much the same question now jamming up parliament ?

HateIsNotGood · 18/03/2019 17:19

I found the post below one of the most informed I have read for some time:

derxa Tue 08-Jan-19 16:42:16

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/dominic-cummings-brexit-referendum-won/

This article by Cummings explains his viewpoint so clearly. I voted Remain but this explains why Remain didn't win. It also explains the entrenched good Remain/bad Leave viewpoint on this website.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2019 17:20

As explained, Louise The HoC can undo any previous vote it makes and cannot bind itself for the future.

It can say it cannot deliver a referendum - MPs then face their voters in the next GE

dreichuplands · 18/03/2019 17:22

There is a definite irony that the only thing the HOC has agreed on, that they don't want a hard Brexit it the only thing that there is a clear path to at present, indeed the current legal outcome.

TalkinPaece · 18/03/2019 17:23

Hate
Yeah but cummings is a toad who would have pulled it the other way if he'd been paid to
trust NOTHING he says

TokyoSushi · 18/03/2019 17:24

Flippin' love Bercow!

LonelyTiredandLow · 18/03/2019 17:25

Would EU extend if May does resign as a result and "goes with her deal"? I'm also not convinced she would, as was mentioned this morning, but think it is an option?

Suspect most likely is WA+PV attachment. Although we still then are relying on EU to see that as a good reason to extend.

BollocksToBrexit · 18/03/2019 17:27

Posted already elsewhere Bollocks.

Sorry, I find it hard to keep up on these threads and frequently have to skip bits.

DGRossetti · 18/03/2019 17:29

Suspect most likely is WA+PV attachment. Although we still then are relying on EU to see that as a good reason to extend.

Only if it did not allow for no deal. So it would be "Leave with WA" and "Remain".

Of course no Brexiteer would allow that - despite not wanting "no deal" as an option either.

The UK really is a wasp trapped in a bottle.

LonelyTiredandLow · 18/03/2019 17:29

Started reading Cumming's 'explanation' but then realised it is him who enabled leave to win thus plunging my country into chaos, causing the world to loose all respect for it and any global influence we once had and flew with Russian money to completely destroy democracy.

No thanks, he can never justify those actions.

BiglyBadgers · 18/03/2019 17:30

Just saw Bercow has disallowed the MV3 vote and am Shock

I knew he should cos of rules but have to say didn't think he would cos of politics

Random18 · 18/03/2019 17:30

So if the govt were to Prorogue Parliament (I think that’s the correct term) what impact does that have on the recent votes?

So the vote to rule out No Deal - is that still valid?

TalkinPaece · 18/03/2019 17:30

Bercow is an odd character - used to be rabidly anti EU - but now is rabidly pro parliament
I find it hysterical that the Brexiters moan about Parliament taking back control.
I thought that was what the voted for - Westminster making the rules Grin

HateIsNotGood · 18/03/2019 17:31

Fair point Rosetti, but as an obvious Remain voter wouldn't you rather WA than No Deal or a request to extend for so long that the 'uncertainty', continues for years?

I think WA is the best way forward for everybody, involving compromises all round, but a starting point to start the real negotiations to get to an "orderly" Brexit. I voted Leave.

Maybe you think the best way forward is to sit back, blow bubbles
and say well you didn't do it my way so too bad, I'm living here anyway. Maybe not.

Do you have a better idea for right now, not how you would like it to be?

SparklySneakers · 18/03/2019 17:32

How can the WA be significantly changed when the Eu has said no?? The deal is the deal, take it or leave it.

I'm glad Bercow has put a stop to some of the nonsense.

I'd like him as a dinner companion.

MarshaBradyo · 18/03/2019 17:33

What happens if the vote against No Deal is not adhered to - nothing?

OutwithMyRemit · 18/03/2019 17:33

It can say it cannot deliver a referendum - MPs then face their voters in the next GE

Hypothetically, which would be more harmful to the Tory vote numbers in a GE, Revoke or presiding over a No Deal crash?

LouiseCollins28 · 18/03/2019 17:34

Parliament can say that, of course they can BigChoc.That doesn't alter one whit the assertion that "Leave" has a direct mandate.

EweSurname · 18/03/2019 17:34

katya adler
@BBCkatyaadler
EU reaction behind closed doors to Speaker ruling out another meaningful vote on Brexit deal unless there are substantial changes: “Again we thought we could see a way forward. Now it’s confusion once again.” 1

EU had been trying to coordinate a reaction to an anticipated request by Theresa May for an extension to UKs leaving process but EU now believes everything is up in the air again ..with 11 days to go till Brexit day 2

One more optimistic high level EU diplomat told me: “I can’t believe I’m saying this but there are still a couple of days to go till the summit and 11 days till 29 March .. the way the Brexit process has gone so far - that’s a lot of time and a lot can still happen “ 3

EU leaders have to consider what can conclude at this week’s summit in absence of a new meaningful vote. Difficult to say short/long extension. Few in EU will take PM’s word if she promises she’s ‘nearly there’. Diplomats say they’ve heard her promise that before 4

EU not in mood to suddenly break open the Withdrawal Agreement to make last minute changes to deal, if PM asks. Some countries may be tempted but as long as Dublin remains firm, there will be no movement. General concensus in EU: the ball is in Theresa May’s court 5

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