Why don't Brexiteers value the economy or peace above leaving?

[newnameyawn]

Although I firmly disagree, I can empathise with the reasons why some people voted Leave in the first referendum, but now we know more, WHY do they still support Brexit?

Every time the prospect of Brexit takes a tiny hit, the pound surges. We take a tiny step towards leaving and the pound crashes. Bank of England, CoC, and business all in agreement UK would be worse off outside EU. Why do Brexiteers want that?? I genuinely don't get why they would want their children and grand children to be worse off.

Also, why don't they care about peace in NI above leaving the EU? And why don't they care about the reasons the EU was formed after WW2 to prevent that ever happening again on the continent of Europe??

I’m aware that Roma men and women and children are one of the world’s most marginalised and persecuted groups.

The Sheffield council fact sheet says there are approximately 4,000 Roma living in the Sheffield area. That is 0.0077 % of the Sheffield population.

It is also 0.00006 % of the U.K. population.

That is not to deny that there have been some problems but the press especially the Star has exaggerated this.

Yes Westminster has to provide proper resources if one area one area is suddenly and disproportionately affected.

But the national benefit of unrestricted access to successful trading bloc with a market on our doorstep worth $18.8 trillion of 500 million consumers should not be walked away from because Westminster has handled O.0077 % of the population of one area with lack of attention.

If an EU citizen has been in another country for more than six months the host country can ask that citizen to leave if they have not found work or have no realistic chance of finding work. There appears to have been some sudden changes in Sheffield but the newspaper reports have exaggerated this too. It is for the U.K. government to manage situations more effectively. This is not a reason to have abandoned a $18.8 trillion trading bloc, but that is what we are doing.

{I’m aware that Roma men and women and children are one of the world’s most marginalised and persecuted groups. }

There are issues with SOME Roma across Europe. I have no idea why some deliberately antagonise the tax paying local residents and seemingly refuse to join in with their adopted countries, that is a matter for a different discussion.

I would comment that in earlier times when there was mass unemployment huge numbers of people would move, for example Irish labourers are almost a classic case, emigrating to England to build railways and canals, and across to America etc. Yes it is totally unforgivable that the UK government (and bugger all to do with the EU) have not helped regenerate areas when the traditional industry closes but at some point people have to take responsibility for their own lives. Unemployment benefit and social housing would be the lap of luxury for over half the worlds population.

So, the worlds 5th richest country not only can't it provide for its own disadvantaged but any refugees either and its not OUR fault but the EU's

....riiiiiight.

& still no link to this story of 150 pregnant under age roma girls descending on sheffield.
So, a group of men surround a police car burning it to the ground and the occupants flee for their lives... no arrests? nor anything on-line either.
I did find an article about Roma children bullying local kids... from 5 years ago.

All sounds like xenophobic rubbish to me, esp as my romanian local DPD driver regularly does 80hr weeks and i was recently treated by a romanian AE Doctor or my poor Mum treated by a Syrian stroke specialist.
Non EU migration through the roof at present, that must be the EUs fault too?

There seems to be several people who don’t know the difference between Roma and Romanian on this thread.

jasjas1973
A minor clarification. Roma and Romanian are not exactly the same. There was at least part of a thread discussing this a few months back, and I forget the details but the Roma are a section of Romanian society who over hundreds of years have 'wandered' Europe and have a tendency to be disruptive and not 'law abiding' when they settle for a while. As far as I am aware, Romanians have similar heritage to others on the East of the EU bordering with Russia and have been badly oppressed by Russia in the past. I would be very happy to be corrected on this.
Italy has a significant Roma problem, as well as other EU countries.

I don't think many leavers care less about any differences, Gypsies were among the first the Nazis targeted for execution, they were blamed for Germany's ills, just as Nat is blaming them for Sheffields problems now.

Thanks for a clarification though.

Aside, my Nan was from Ireland (hence my EU passport) her mother was a Gypsy

I had to double take on that report about "Romanian" and wondered if it was in fact Roma. Leaving aside all the issues for Roma about being Roma and not British (hideous oversimplification, my apologies) if these are British girls from a Roma background, they are British.
Obviously it is a very complicated matter and I wouldn't dream of setting myself up as an expert but we have a responsibility to British children and young people and, on the face of it, these sounded like British young people.
Cutting SEN funding is bloody dreadful and hard to justify in any circumstance let alone this one.

I think the previous poster was specifically airing views about Roma in Sheffield. I have a friend with a Romanian DiL -she is very unkind and racist against anyone of Roma descent.

@Millyonthe - In answer to your question OP, we don't think leaving the EU will damage the economy

If that's what you believe, then you are an ill-informed idiot. All reports from your own government show that leaving the EU will have a negative effect on your economy.

That statement surprised me too as I encountered the opposite: Europeans with 2 or 3 degrees yet working here as cleaners or in supermarkets.

doI
That is what I believe and I am not an ill-informed idiot. You certainly know how to make friends and influence people though. Have you considered campaigning?

Thank you dear.

Some people believe in Flying Saucers, Crystal healing and that the earth is flat..... it doesn't make these beliefs correct.

But good to know Mark Carney, OBR, OECD, IMF, world bank, the Chancellor all havn't a fuckin clue what they talking about and that the billions spent on no-deal preparations have all been an utter waste of money because brexitiers believe all will be well.....

@Millyonthe - You certainly know how to make friends and influence people though.

I have just reached the stage where I have no patience with the wilfully ignorant anymore. All the economists, all the business experts, your own government, stating that brexit will affect the economy detrimentally are obviously wrong. Perhaps you'd like to share some of your economic wisdom as you obviously know something they don't know know. Maybe you have that supply of fairy dust that that nay sayers in parliament believe will sort out the border issues in Ireland?

And some people who trust in govt reports believe they know more about what's happening in Sheffield than people who actually live in Sheffield.

doI
I understand economics and business very well. I don't have a solution to the Irish border so I think we need to leave slowly using May's WA so that we respect the GFA and listen carefully to the wishes of Ireland and NI.

@Millyonthe - I understand economics and business very well.

Perhaps then you would share some of your economic analysis that leads you to conclude brexit will be good for the economy as pretty much everyone with expertise in the area must be analysing the data incorrectly.

Milly - i asked Nat to link to these stories, nothing was forthcoming and nothing at all about these events gripping Sheffield and its residents on the 'net......surely you'd think they'd be something? well, there was tbh.... lots on the good people of sheffield trying to protect their street trees....lol!
obviously more to worry about than no go areas, sexually rampant gypsies and burned out police cars.

Its not about believing an individual Govt report or not but when the volume of evidence goes in one direction......... only a fool would discount them.

jasjas1973
There was an article about the issues in Sheffield and the fact there are some 'no go' areas I am not sure if it was BBC website, or SKY website. This was several months back. At the time it was about the relative lawlessness, the fact the police don't go in unless something really serious has gone on, and the crap piled up in the street (s).
Local councils have a duty to provide areas for travelling people however there are often problems.

@@Millyonthe - I appreciate it will take a while for you to gather all your evidence and data analysis for us, but maybe you could give us a few of the main points?

The catchment of ds' old secondary includes a large population of Roma. 10% of the intake are Roma - about 120 throughout the school. While it causes problems for the school in terms of attendance stats, it's not something I (nor anyone else I know) blames the EU for The school sees it as a challenge to get the Roma to engage in education but that that is their job - as is coping with the 55 languages spoken at the school . Not all of these languages are from the EU - in fact the single largest group for whom English is an "additional language" is Urdu speaking.

This is not an EU membership problem . The school values its diversity and encourages the pupils to celebrate the variety of its heritages.

I have no doubt that the values that the school inculcates are also why this area voted 70% Remain. It is not xenophobic

@Millyonthe - nothing for us yet? Maybe give us an idea when you'll be able to give us the main points at least.

I think some brexiteers (I'm not one though I do understand their point of view) think it is actually better to leave and be worse off than to stay, like leaving a bad marriage you share the assets and the debts but you are both worse off financially

MN don't generally recommend people stay in a bad marriage either for the sake of the kids or because they would be better off staying

for some brexiteers ( not all) they would definitely rather be poorer without EU rules than richer with EU rules they are not stupid they know we will be worse off financially but they think it is a price well
worth paying

just like some supporters of scottish independence still want to be independent regardless of whether it is better or worse for Scottish economy
there are 5 degrees

1. I want to be independent of the EU regardless of the economy
2. I want to be independent of the EU provided we are no worse off
3. I don't mind whether we are in or out of EU I think it will be economically neutral or I don't know or politicians are only in it for themselves regardless of opinion
4. I want to be in the EU but only if it is best for UK and the economy

5 I want to be in EU even if we are economically worse off in EU

the same 5 groups were evident in Scottish referendum too

group 1 will be brexit supporters regardless and group 5 will be EU supporters regardless these 2 groups are highly unlikely to change minds as it is a philosophical position not an economic one.
the vote really hangs on group 3 if they can be bothered to vote as they are the least likely to vote; and to a lesser extent whether any of groups 2 and 4 can be persuaded to change