Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 12:57

We need Time!
Its the one thing we don't have.

Todays vote is on extending a50.

To the displeasure of leavers, Bercow has selected amendments:

e) Corbyn Amendment
demands the government should “provide parliamentary time for this house to find a majority for a different approach”.

h) Wollaston Amendment
cross party amendment requesting to extend to allow the ability to legislate for a PV

i) Benn Amendment
cross party backbenchers take over parliamentary time from 20th March to find a majority way forward which gives justification for an extension

j) Bryant Amendment
prevents meaningful vote III

After yesterday's vote, May is left with effectively four options:

1) Pass the WA and go for a short technical extension.
An extension would have numbers in the HoC, but passing the WA is a struggle and it's reliant on the EU granting extension which is probably viable in this circumstances.

2) Be defeated getting the WA through and be forced into asking for a long extension as a result. This would include EP elections.
This option is politically toxic to the tories and its unlikely a long extension would pass the HoC. The EU would still need a justification for a long extension - a PV would be the natural option - but not clear if that could pass the HoC. Ditto passing legislation for EP elections. Whole scenario is unlikely

3) Be forced to revoke
Tory party big red button of self destruct

4) Actively decide to pursue an illegal no deal Brexit
Let's not think of the ramification

Going through this at speed, my initial reactions to this are:

If e) passes it doesn't really make much difference to May's choices here, but Labour might have more say.

If h) passes it might make 2) more likely

If i) passes it might open up alternative options

If j) passes we might have a real issue if its the only amendment that passes - it would leave a straight choice of Revoke or No Deal UNLESS i) passes as well.

But there might be other things that are not hitting me right in the face now.

As it stands, Hard Line Brexiteers were earlier today making noises that they would now support the WA - including whispers that this would include the DUP who would be likely to set off a chain reaction of support.

However which (if any) amendments pass today could well affect whether thats even a possibility.

As a result this vote needs to carry the health warning 'Be Careful what you wish for'. What you would LIKE might be extremely high risk and might jeapordise the main vote and the chances of an extension at all.

So whilst Leavers might be unhappy about the choices, it might well ultimately work best for No Dealers. Or it could be a gift for Remainers. Bercow's selections are not necessarily biased for this reason. He does not know the outcome here. If anything it looks like he's actually trying to put more options on the table for the house, rather than allow May to dictate to the house. Which is exactly what he should be doing. He's given parliament the power.

I suspect we will not fully understand what is going on tonight EVEN MORE than last night. And it will take a short while for everyone to calibrate what the eventual result actually is going to mean.

THIS is the most important vote yet. And it has the potential its going to end up m-e-s-s-y.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
wherearemychickens · 15/03/2019 22:10

Why are the queues in Calais not being reported more widely? Going on the responses to a tweet by James O'Brien, the queues are having an impact on businesses in this country already.

PinkieTuscadero · 15/03/2019 22:10

With the crazed Eurosceptics getting loonier by the day I wouldn't be surprised if they meant she should literally fall on her sword.

prettybird · 15/03/2019 22:14

Dh says that Sam Coates (Times) has tweeted that the EU has said that its condition for a (lengthy?) extension would be a PV. Shock

I'm on my very old iPhone and Twitter shuts down every time I try to do a search in it Sad, so I can't check it out.

NoWordForFluffy · 15/03/2019 22:24

I can't see that tweet, pretty...it wouldn't surprise me though.

lazysummer · 15/03/2019 22:35

This has been mentioned several times, but I still don't understand the logic.
The MV was rejected by 230 votes first time, then by 149 votes 2nd time. TM is going for a third vote in the hope that Parliament is running out of options, and it is the lesser of two evils.
Meanwhile, the Referendum is "the will of the people", despite all of the controversy surrounding the vote, and the fact that the reality of leaving is much clearer now. Where does democracy fit into this dichotomy?

Loletta · 15/03/2019 22:36

chickens I heard that story on LBC from James O'Brien. Basically the rehearsals at Calais are causing delays that are causing produce to go off and that's without the border checks and extra paperwork. Newspapers not reporting this at all.

lazysummer · 15/03/2019 22:39

I also don't understand this week's votes, and hope someone will explain.
The MV was rejected by 149 votes on Tuesday. No deal was also rejected. The PV was rejected and looking at other options was rejected.
A delay was accepted, but what are they hoping will happen in the next 3 months?

NoWordForFluffy · 15/03/2019 22:53

The 3 month delay was agreed if the WA passes as it's needed for legislation. They acknowledged that if it doesn't pass, a longer delay is needed.

OogieMcBoogie · 15/03/2019 23:11

Guardian reporting that EU cannot legally extend beyond 1 July if we haven’t held European Parliament elections.

Sostenueto · 15/03/2019 23:26

If we rejoin and take on the Euro I'm emigrating! Our currency must remain in tact. As much as I want to remain in the EU there's no way I want the euro. Who knows what state the EU will be in in 30 years time? No we should stick with our own currency.

PigeonofDoom · 15/03/2019 23:36

Who knows what state the pound will be in in 30 year time Sad

Peregrina · 16/03/2019 00:18

Impossible to predict, isn't it? 25-30 years ago we had interest rates nudging 15%. I remember a friend in about 1993 being extremely pleased that she and her husband had secured a fixed rate mortgage at 10%. Now we have interest rates at 0.75% and this is a recent increase from 0.5%. Really who would have thought that they could change so much in a generation?

LonelyandTiredandLow · 16/03/2019 02:10

Re Operation Stack and lack of reporting - I was wondering the same about imports/exports to/from China. A couple of weeks ago it was reported these had all but stopped due to uncertainty on tariffs upon arrival. This should be having impacts around now.

Have added Travellers to the Third Reich to my bag - thanks for the recommendation.

Heard on R4 that apparently revoke can be used at any time but A50 can also be triggered more than once Shock. I can't understand how it can revive - anyone else understand this better? Had DD in car and missed details... Worry there is that it never fully goes away and we have this every time a new gov/PM gets in Sad

LonelyandTiredandLow · 16/03/2019 02:47

And - businesses in UK starting to worry about extension costs, such as the Brexit Ferries fuel and staffing costs that it wants compensation for.

Looks like global mocking is in store for Tim Spoons' Pantaloons on top of the 19% decline Grin. Cheered me up anyway!

borntobequiet · 16/03/2019 05:56

I doubt that the EU would want the UK to move to the Euro, having seen the true political precariousness of the country and its seeming willingness to commit economic suicide in the name of Sovereignty and Taking Back Control.

Motheroffourdragons · 16/03/2019 07:23

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 16/03/2019 07:27

^I also don't understand this week's votes, and hope someone will explain.
The MV was rejected by 149 votes on Tuesday. No deal was also rejected. The PV was rejected and looking at other options was rejected.
A delay was accepted, but what are they hoping will happen in the next 3 months^

I don’t get it either lazy seems ironic to me it called a “meaningful vote” when it doesn’t seem to mean anything until it’s passed.

1tisILeClerc · 16/03/2019 07:34

lazysummer
You have to rember that the UK government do not hold all the cards.
One analogy might be that you have put your kids in the car and are off to the zoo for the day.
Half way there the kids start arguing that they want to go to the beach instead, despite not having brought their buckets and spades. Pointing this out, they then want other options.
Since you (the EU with a legal treaty behind it) are going to the zoo, the kids can argue as much as they like but can't take control. They are either going to the zoo, going home, or going home to bed with no supper.

I am sorry Sos, but emigrating to avoid the UK using the Euro does not make sense, because hardly, if anyone else uses the UK£.
It is only currency, there are plenty of other things to get excited about.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2019 07:41

If we ever do get into the position of requesting the suggested Fast Track Rejoin, we'd have a good chance of retaining all optouts:

Justification we could use would be that a recent member is totally different case to a new member joining for the first time, who obviously never had optouts.

Asking to Rejoin would already mean swallowing a lot of pride and the EU are already well aware of the dangers of a Versailles-type humiliation.

Anyway, the UK does not satisfy the financial conditions for joining the Euro and is unlikely to do so for many years

It would be easy to avoid:
Sweden joined the EU in 1994 and formally promised to join the Euro, but has carefully avoided satisfying the conditions to do so

In practice, the Eurozone don't want the UK buggering up their currency:
The deep structural problems in the Uk economy mean the pound must be allowed to keep devaluating, as it has for decades.

If this were stopped, there would be disaster - hedge-funders would see to that - and it would spread
The Eurozone have had sufficient problems before with smaller countries who should never have joined - the UK economy could crash and take the Euro down with it

Motheroffourdragons · 16/03/2019 07:45

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

1tisILeClerc · 16/03/2019 07:46

I would see the departure of Mrs May after the WA is signed as almost irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. ALL negotiations will need a dedicated team with a strong focus on where the UK wants to go, irrespective of it being a crash out or WA, and even revoke of course, and a strong focused government is the last thing you will find in Westminster. For this reason the WA is the safest option. Life for everyone can stabilise and transport etc can continue. The Westminster kindergarten can throw it's toys around and eventually a plan might emerge.
Crashing out without a deal while the government are having a fist fight will totally destroy the UK.

1tisILeClerc · 16/03/2019 07:54

{I cannot see there being a will either in the UK or in the EU for a fast track rejoin.}
I suspect that 1-2 years in transition will change this view when the companies that are leaving will have gone and something approaches reality strikes. The activities of 'the Wherrity sniffer' will have to ramp up to something spectacular and despite the obvious appeal, slightly cheaper Toblerones from Switzerland won't cut it. there is so much Westminster activity concealed by lies, dodgy deals and NDAs and it is only when they are opened to the light will the UK public find out how deep the shit might be.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2019 07:59

Alex Barker@alexebarker

So here’s a leaked EU “room document” on the legal questions relating to a Brexit delay.

It was circulated to EU ambos earlier this afternoon.

Our full story here:
https://www.ft.com/content/030dce3c-4749-11e9-a965-23d669740bfb

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!
ElenadeClermont · 16/03/2019 08:01

We are too unreliable (read batshit crazy) to be asked to join the euro. You can only manage a large currency zone if the countries in it are willing to co-operate. You just know the UK would go their own way every time. Because we know better.

Please, forgive my ignorance but why are people so attached to the pound?

BCF Is it the same with Deutchmarks? That was a truly strong currency. Do people still go on about it?