Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 12:57

We need Time!
Its the one thing we don't have.

Todays vote is on extending a50.

To the displeasure of leavers, Bercow has selected amendments:

e) Corbyn Amendment
demands the government should “provide parliamentary time for this house to find a majority for a different approach”.

h) Wollaston Amendment
cross party amendment requesting to extend to allow the ability to legislate for a PV

i) Benn Amendment
cross party backbenchers take over parliamentary time from 20th March to find a majority way forward which gives justification for an extension

j) Bryant Amendment
prevents meaningful vote III

After yesterday's vote, May is left with effectively four options:

1) Pass the WA and go for a short technical extension.
An extension would have numbers in the HoC, but passing the WA is a struggle and it's reliant on the EU granting extension which is probably viable in this circumstances.

2) Be defeated getting the WA through and be forced into asking for a long extension as a result. This would include EP elections.
This option is politically toxic to the tories and its unlikely a long extension would pass the HoC. The EU would still need a justification for a long extension - a PV would be the natural option - but not clear if that could pass the HoC. Ditto passing legislation for EP elections. Whole scenario is unlikely

3) Be forced to revoke
Tory party big red button of self destruct

4) Actively decide to pursue an illegal no deal Brexit
Let's not think of the ramification

Going through this at speed, my initial reactions to this are:

If e) passes it doesn't really make much difference to May's choices here, but Labour might have more say.

If h) passes it might make 2) more likely

If i) passes it might open up alternative options

If j) passes we might have a real issue if its the only amendment that passes - it would leave a straight choice of Revoke or No Deal UNLESS i) passes as well.

But there might be other things that are not hitting me right in the face now.

As it stands, Hard Line Brexiteers were earlier today making noises that they would now support the WA - including whispers that this would include the DUP who would be likely to set off a chain reaction of support.

However which (if any) amendments pass today could well affect whether thats even a possibility.

As a result this vote needs to carry the health warning 'Be Careful what you wish for'. What you would LIKE might be extremely high risk and might jeapordise the main vote and the chances of an extension at all.

So whilst Leavers might be unhappy about the choices, it might well ultimately work best for No Dealers. Or it could be a gift for Remainers. Bercow's selections are not necessarily biased for this reason. He does not know the outcome here. If anything it looks like he's actually trying to put more options on the table for the house, rather than allow May to dictate to the house. Which is exactly what he should be doing. He's given parliament the power.

I suspect we will not fully understand what is going on tonight EVEN MORE than last night. And it will take a short while for everyone to calibrate what the eventual result actually is going to mean.

THIS is the most important vote yet. And it has the potential its going to end up m-e-s-s-y.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
67chevvyimpala · 15/03/2019 16:22

But....but...we've been saying this for months

They will vote for it. Because the alternative now is no Brexit.

The ERG really have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

And as for Corbyn!

I hope labour are crushed in May.

Shame Vince cable didnt quit sooner and let Jo swinson take the helm for the lib dems into the elections.

Loletta · 15/03/2019 16:22

@davidallengreen

The first two Brexit Secretaries voted against the deal they themselves negotiated.

The third Brexit Secretary said "watch this" and voted against the motion he had proposed only moments before.

And Brexiteers wonder why they never get anywhere.

TatianaLarina · 15/03/2019 16:23

Also, given the shitshow so far, who'd bet on the UK being out of the EU by 2022 ?

David Davis. Wink

We’ll be stuck in limbo for around 8+ years with successive governments trying and failing to agree a deal with the EU.

prettybird · 15/03/2019 16:25

Peregrina - I haven't read it yet - but that was very much the message I got from my grandmother's diaries. My grandfather and she were deeply uncomfortable with what they witnessed.

It actually showed a softness, awareness and empathy in her that I never saw from her as I was growing up (when they went to SA, they happily benefited from the inequity of apartheid) or in how she had treated my mum and dad. Something changed in her during/after the war years Sad

DGRossetti · 15/03/2019 16:27

As an aside, I find it fascinating (and am far too scared to comment directly in-thread) that there's an AIBU running where the audience (predominately women ?) are being asked what they consider "appropriate female wear" ... underscoring how sometimes misogyny can spread sideways through women.

I defy anyone to locate an analogous thread on a more male-oriented forum asking "What do you consider appropriate male clothing ?". A question I note hasn't been asked in that thread at all (as of 42 posts) - the implication being the one-sidedness is entirely natural Hmm

Interesting ...

Loletta · 15/03/2019 16:31

Steve Barclay: "I support Brexit, this constituency voted in very large numbers for Brexit. We need a deal, we need to get that over the line. But if we don't have a deal we should leave with no deal. That's always been my position and I voted as the constituency would expect."

Peregrina · 15/03/2019 16:31

We heard this before with the Swiss Referendum on curbing FoM. The Swiss blinked first, which defied the Leavers projections of it being the EU which would blink first.

Loletta · 15/03/2019 16:32

So Brexit secretary number 4 soon? Any guesses?

Peregrina · 15/03/2019 16:37

The ERG really have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

Not yet, they haven't. They won't until a proper extension is agreed and people begin to realise that no, the goodies promised have not appeared.

TalkinPaece · 15/03/2019 16:39

DGR
The young lady in the bra top on the flight I take it.
TBH most blokes know they look crap in budgie smugglers or Kevin Keegan shorts so go baggy.
The airline behaved badly, regardless of ones views on her clothing.

Peregrina
The by election is interesting as Labour were not expected to win it and the Tories were not expected to come second.
The ward has had protest vote independents for quite a while (the anti cuts party were the muppets who forced a £35k by election)

Peregrina · 15/03/2019 16:44

Who was expected to win then TiP?

The May elections ought to be interesting. I admit that the Local Government elections in 2017 didn't produce much change, but quite a lot of water has flown under the bridge since then.

TalkinPaece · 15/03/2019 16:49

Peregrina
The anti cuts folks thought they had it in the bag.
Another of the independents is standing down in May so everything is up for grabs then as well.
Interesting times.

1tisILeClerc · 15/03/2019 16:57

Since this is the 'upmarket' Brexit thread, what is the point of the 'extension' that is being talked about?
Is it a month or so to complete the 'technicalities', so the official line is the UK leaves on 29th but some form of agreement that the other papers that need signing happen, or is it some other delay so Mrs May can try another 10 times to get the WA signed?
I see it as 2 forms of 'extension' which is adding a bit more confusion.
Naming them 'Technical extension' and 'bollocks extension' would be handy.

TalkinPaece · 15/03/2019 17:01

Naming them 'Technical extension' and 'bollocks extension' would be handy.
Tee hee

NoWordForFluffy · 15/03/2019 17:01

I think any longer ('bollocks') delay would have to be for a specific reason, i.e. the HoC had voted for a second ref. I doubt it would be agreed by EU27 for vague fucking about!

DGRossetti · 15/03/2019 17:06

Since this is the 'upmarket' Brexit thread, what is the point of the 'extension' that is being talked about?

My best understanding is that even if the WA was passed today, the UK would not be ready to leave on the 29th, so there would need to be some sort of continuation of our EU membership until we are ready to cut the cord (so to speak). The idea being we go from being full EU member to 3rd country with the WA seamlessly.

After all, I believe it was Lloyd George himself that said Y peth mwyaf peryglus i'w wneud yw neidio canon mewn dau naid.

Lisette1940 · 15/03/2019 17:14

Peregrina, that's a fascinating book, isnt it?

1tisILeClerc · 15/03/2019 17:21

I know the UK isn't ready, it may never be, but to SAY it is leaving on 29th ('Our Treesa' going to Brussels again) which would give industry and everyone some certainty, but actually stay in for a few more weeks while the other documents are signed.
Can you tell, I'm losing the will to be interested now?
besides, there has always been the comment that an about face and rejoin during transition was on the cards, unless the EU have been sensibly deleting all traces of these suggestions.

1tisILeClerc · 15/03/2019 17:23

Government advice coming in thick and fast now. I did look at one which is relevant to me and it didn't say much more than 'go and ask a grown up'.

DGRossetti · 15/03/2019 17:29

As I understand it (and that's a big caveat with current events) once the WA is passed and is in place, the UK and EU have a framework in place from which to carry on negotiations. Avoiding the cliff edge of no deal.

As we should all know from the "backstop" word, that transition phase will continue until both EU and UK declare it over. Until that moment, Ni is covered by the backstop, and the UK toes the line - or else.

The removal of the backstop will be the very last thing the WA will implement as new agreements come on stream.

The WA being "EU lite" - and having a price tag on it.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/03/2019 17:38

iirc, the government amendment which was passed yesterday has 2 scenarios for extension:

  1. If the WA is passes by 20 March, then May will ask the EU for a "technical" extension until 30 June,
    which would just be to debate and pass the WAIB (enabling legislation)

  2. If it is not passed by 20 March, then May will ask the EU for a longer extension, which would mean holding EP elections

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/03/2019 17:38

Hopefully this will give some of you a giggle on no deal preparations

Littlespaces · 15/03/2019 17:47

Last line in the clip was brilliant

'As soon as we voted for BoatyMcBoatface, we never should have been given this shit'. Grin

Thanks for the book recommendation. Looks great!

BigChocFrenzy · 15/03/2019 18:12

Not another one !
(Brexit Secretary)

Remember Barclay "commended the motion to the House" for extension ... then voted aginst himself

The Irish Border@BorderIrish

I'm getting close to my hat-trick and it's still only the first half
....
Tom Newton Dunnn@tnewtondunn*

Looks like Steve Barclay will resign next week if the deal falls at MV3 and PM applies for a longer delay.

He makes it clear he won’t support that... so she’ll need a 4th Brexit Secretary.

NoWordForFluffy · 15/03/2019 18:23

You almost need a remainer in that job as they'll actually try to get a cracking deal for us!

Swipe left for the next trending thread