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Brexit

Westminstenders: Adrift at Sea

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 13/03/2019 14:35

After May lost the Meaningful Vote last night by a long way she has lost control of the agenda. She managed to persuade just 40 out of the 116 she needed to support here.

This leaves us all adrift with nothing apparent to a solution.

May announced that tonight's vote will be to stop No Deal. She has announced that it will be a free vote and she herself intends to vote against No Deal. This looks set to be blocked but the amendments that go with it are more important. Particularly the Spelman / Dromey amendment which is pitched to stop no deal completely (it doesn't) which is more about trying to kill off a Meaningful Vote III instead.

Tomorrow's vote is perhaps more important though. Its about an extension to a50. We NEED an extension. However the length of the extension is yet to be argued as is the purpose of the extension.

This is also against whispers that the Italian Far Right group has been lobbied by Leave.EU and Farage has directly asked Eurospectics in the EP to veto any extension. Whether this would happen remains to be seen but it certainly raises questions over an extension is even now possible. This was always a probable action; Banks & Farage have for 3 years aggitated to cause maximum problems for the government. Its also true that they only have power due to this dynamic of being a hostile force.

With No Deal so catastophic that Hammond today made the point in his Spring Budget that, if he feels there's almost nothing he'd feel able to do to mitigate the effects of what he sees as the car crash of no deal, this leaves one option on the table. Ironically it is possible that the actions of Banks and Co might be more likely to have that effect rather than to stop an extension. The question, however, would then be whether May had the guts to revoke.

We certainly have, at least, reached crunch point. Have we done so too late to make a difference? And will our new found sovereignity be twarted by Brexiteers inviting the interference of foriegn hostile forces to intervene?

OP posts:
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BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2019 16:24

MEP immunity seems limited to avoiding persecution for performing their political duties

As with UK MPs, the EP can vote to remove immunity in the case of criminal offences, e.g. lying about who was driving
A UK MP would face prosecution if conspiring with foreign enemies against the UK

afaik, Farage won't be able to call on MEP privilege if Mueller calls him to the US for questioning
Or charges him

Parliamentary immunity

www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/faq/6/parliamentary-immunity

Parliamentary immunity is not a Member’s personal privilege, but guarantees that a MEP can freely exercise his or her mandate and cannot be exposed to arbitrary, political persecution.
As such it is a guarantee of the independence and integrity of Parliament as a whole.
...
Immunity cannot be claimed when a Member is found in the act of committing an offence.

DGRossetti · 13/03/2019 16:27

(sidetracking) Be curious whether MEPs protections are greater or lesser than an MPs ? As we know MPs can be (and are !!!!) charged with criminal offences and go to jail (which curiously, doen't disbar them from office ...)

Sostenueto · 13/03/2019 16:28

I wouldn't trust Gove no further than I could throw him. Yes the Spelman amendment has been withdrawn because TM is whipping against it so it would not get through. Shambles totally TM is dangerous and she WILL present her damned WA again and it will get through 5 days before we leave. She has tied everyone in knots and this broken country is her trophy. Damn her!

ChiaraRimini · 13/03/2019 16:30

We can't have No Deal without breaking the GFA surely? Isn't that a good enough reason to revoke?

LonelyandTiredandLow · 13/03/2019 16:31

And as MEPs are elected under national electoral law, if an MEP is found guilty of a criminal offence, it is for the member state's authorities to decide whether his or her mandate therefore falls.

I think we'd need our own Mueller to prosecute. Never going to happen under the tories. Does make me wonder what the hell M15 are doing letting these two (banks/Farage) swan about together still.

MissMalice · 13/03/2019 16:31

PMK

GeistohneGrenzen · 13/03/2019 16:31

PMK

BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2019 16:32

Ed Conway@EdConwaySky

For most of our lifetimes, UK offered preferential trade terms to Europe.

Under the no-deal tariffs out today some 18% of EU imports will face tariffs, compared with 8% of imports from outside Europe.

Govt attempting to downplay this but make no mistake, it's a major shift

LonelyandTiredandLow · 13/03/2019 16:34

Slap Gove

BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2019 16:34

Chiara We'd only break the GFA in spirit

  • which many countries around the world would still regard as disgraceful, including the US & the E27 However, probably not actionable in court

The GFA never considered the possibility of Brexit and hence does not specifically forbid hardening the goods border

JustAnotherPoster00 · 13/03/2019 16:35

PMK

DGRossetti · 13/03/2019 16:36

Under the no-deal tariffs out today some 18% of EU imports will face tariffs, compared with 8% of imports from outside Europe.

With the added frisson that a lot of this is going to be decided retrospectively. So companies will try to get it right - in good faith - and end up with huge bills for a backlog when it turns out they got it wrong.

Remember Pastygate ? Now multiply that by billions across thousands of businesses and stir vigorously ....

LonelyandTiredandLow · 13/03/2019 16:37

Sorry, attempted to embed the Slap Gove game - fail!
Slap Gove link which I think we all need to remember has been hugely popular for many reasons.

GroovieGazelloo · 13/03/2019 16:38

Thanks for the new thread Red.

Interestingly, in the Times article I saw nothing about the French point of view. The impression that I'm getting here, in France, is that there's a certain tolerance for the angst which brought about Brexit in Britain.

People know that the majority was slim in the referendum and those I've talked with say that referendums are not about the actual subject. In France they've been about confronting the party in power.

At the moment, the gilets jaunes are giving Macron grief and this ' people power' has to be integrated into the system. Or else the whole of the French system collapses. So there is a similar type of tension going on here.

Anyway , in terms of a general French opinion on whether people would want the UK to stay in the UK or not, I really believe they do. There is a great love of the UK going back to the war efforts and further back too. But, there is also a belief that The UK will need to get its house in order so that brexshite doesn't contaminate the rest of Europe.

The tolerance towards the Brits also seems to come from a general understanding here that some people in our countries are really miserable and so are voicing their opinions more loudly and are becoming more extreme. But,at the same time, there's also a general belief that Europe is about peace keeping . Many of the French remember being invaded and being occupied territory only a generation ago. So, at the moment the extremist parties are shutting their mouths on Frexit - whereas not so long ago they were always banging on about it.

So, to be honest, if there is a revoke and a desire to stay in the EU, I really do think that the French would be for it. Macron is very pro Europe and though at the moment he's talking about not having Brexit contaminate Europe, if it was about returning to a sense of ' fair play', I'm sure it would be put down to "British eccentricity". After all, we still have sterling and drive on the other side of the road ...Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2019 16:39

Still leaves Italy as a concern .... and Hungary and ..... anyone whose patience ran out

Sam Coates Times Retweeted Jakub Krupa@JakubKrupa

To all spreading false rumours about Poland planning to veto a A50 extension:

Foreign Minister Jacek Czaputowicz just said a no deal Brexit would be 'the worst possible outcome' & 'maybe we will need to (...) extend this period;
maybe they need more time to reflect on this"

GroovieGazelloo · 13/03/2019 16:39

Oh, by the way, to the poster who compared Farage to a frog, please don't. Wink

1tisILeClerc · 13/03/2019 16:43

{Immunity cannot be claimed when a Member is found in the act of committing an offence.}

The Belgians and French intelligence folks among others I expect have been keeping an eye on 'external influences' so may well have bits of info on Farage and others as the 'friends to the North East have been making their presence known outside Salisbury which has a fine Cathedral.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2019 16:44

Alberto Nardelli@AlbertoNardelli

MPs and some ministers will be voting tonight for an amendment that seeks an extension to article 50 to negotiate a deal that the EU has already rejected. 🤦🏻‍♀️

There are 16 days to Brexit.
When EU27 leaders meet to decide on granting an extension (or not) there will be 8 days to go.Confused

TiddleTaddleTat · 13/03/2019 16:47

Place marking

TiddleTaddleTat · 13/03/2019 16:47

Ps I've got wine and chocolate in for tonight's action at the HoC

BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2019 16:48

😂😂 Bless !

Maybe MPs can be forgiven for not representing their constituents when they can't understand them !
(and one vote Johnny may have lost for the next GE by publishing)

I wonder if this person considered they understood enough to vote in the 2016 referendum.

Johnny Mercer MP@JohnnyMercerUK

A classic of the genre.
Try being an MP.
This is a genuine email from a constituent yesterday.

Westminstenders: Adrift at Sea
DGRossetti · 13/03/2019 16:50

DW wasn't that impressed by the butterscotch schnapps, but said it was nicer than the black raspberry royale liqueur we had last time the limoncello ran out.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2019 16:50

Commission spokesman responds to UK proposals on tariffs under no deal:

'We will carefully analyse the compliance of UK plan with WTO law & EU's rights there under.

The differential treatment of trade on the island of Ireland & other trade between EU & UK raises concerns.'

LonelyandTiredandLow · 13/03/2019 16:52

Ukip Daily Viral

@DailyUkip
Follow Follow @DailyUkip
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UKIP: RT PaulJamesOakley: Great news for consumers! Government will slash tariffs to zero on 87% of imports if Britain leaps free from the EU without a deal

9:24 AM - 13 Mar 2019
0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

Hmm No likes? Surely the public don't believe Hammond over UKIP?

GroovieGazelloo · 13/03/2019 16:52

Hungary and Italy's positions ?
Well, till I know better I'm holding on to these hopes...
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-meps-european-parliament-final-say-peoples-vote-second-referendum-a8723066.html?amp