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Brexit

Westminstenders: Adrift at Sea

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 13/03/2019 14:35

After May lost the Meaningful Vote last night by a long way she has lost control of the agenda. She managed to persuade just 40 out of the 116 she needed to support here.

This leaves us all adrift with nothing apparent to a solution.

May announced that tonight's vote will be to stop No Deal. She has announced that it will be a free vote and she herself intends to vote against No Deal. This looks set to be blocked but the amendments that go with it are more important. Particularly the Spelman / Dromey amendment which is pitched to stop no deal completely (it doesn't) which is more about trying to kill off a Meaningful Vote III instead.

Tomorrow's vote is perhaps more important though. Its about an extension to a50. We NEED an extension. However the length of the extension is yet to be argued as is the purpose of the extension.

This is also against whispers that the Italian Far Right group has been lobbied by Leave.EU and Farage has directly asked Eurospectics in the EP to veto any extension. Whether this would happen remains to be seen but it certainly raises questions over an extension is even now possible. This was always a probable action; Banks & Farage have for 3 years aggitated to cause maximum problems for the government. Its also true that they only have power due to this dynamic of being a hostile force.

With No Deal so catastophic that Hammond today made the point in his Spring Budget that, if he feels there's almost nothing he'd feel able to do to mitigate the effects of what he sees as the car crash of no deal, this leaves one option on the table. Ironically it is possible that the actions of Banks and Co might be more likely to have that effect rather than to stop an extension. The question, however, would then be whether May had the guts to revoke.

We certainly have, at least, reached crunch point. Have we done so too late to make a difference? And will our new found sovereignity be twarted by Brexiteers inviting the interference of foriegn hostile forces to intervene?

OP posts:
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FiddleFaddleDingDong · 13/03/2019 16:04

I’d rather Gove got the top Tory job over Johnson (did people hear BJ’s comments today about money being spent on investigating historical child sex abuse as ‘spaffing money up against the wall’). But it still makes me feel queasy favouring Gove in any situation at all.

DGRossetti · 13/03/2019 16:05

The sane Tories must know that for no deal or revoke to happen under their watch will be disastrous for the party.

Which is why they have been so desperate to engineer it to look like somehow Labour is to blame.

I know Corbyn has his detractors (raises hand) and that he's probably not the brightest Labour has to offer. But I think one thing in his favour is he seems to be able to take advice. And whoever advised him (is advising him ?) to "do a Lucan" has so far reaped dividends. Not directly in polling (and after 2017, there isn't enough salt in the world). But certainly in allowing the everyday focus to fall on - and remain on - the Tory party that has been in charge of Brexit for two fucking years.

SusanWalker · 13/03/2019 16:06

And Henry the eighth then cashed in by plundering the monasteries and giving some of the spoil to his mates.

TalkinPaece · 13/03/2019 16:06

Last thread finished in a suitably silly manner :-)

Flowerplower · 13/03/2019 16:07

.

KennDodd · 13/03/2019 16:08

Thank you as always Red

DGRossetti · 13/03/2019 16:08

I’d rather Gove got the top Tory job over Johnson

If it kept us in the EU, I'd dig up Thatcher myself (well, get my brother to do it ...) . (Obscure literary allusion alert Grin )

ChiaraRimini · 13/03/2019 16:08

DGR Corbyn is a lazy, slow witted anti Europe arse. It has suited him perfectly to do fuck all and let the Tories take the blame, but don't be fooled that it's a cunning plan.

Lisette1940 · 13/03/2019 16:08

Thanks Red

LonelyandTiredandLow · 13/03/2019 16:09

Just thinking aloud here, but could the govt charge Farage/Banks with hostility or putting the country at deliberate risk of harm? I know it would probably not pan out until after b.day but seeing as Farage will be in court in a few weeks (so we hear anyway) but it would be good to see some official action against their antics and have it pointed out to the public what they are risking and how their are investing in a foreign power to dictate UK futures?

Somerville · 13/03/2019 16:11

Fucking Gove talked about a return to rule from Westminster for Northern Ireland in no-deal scenario. Being interpreted as a threat to the DUP but they WANT this. What have I always said about him on these threads??? He just proved it all over again; hates the GFA and happy to put the boot in at any opportunity.

DGRossetti · 13/03/2019 16:11

but don't be fooled that it's a cunning plan.

I have no illusions it is Grin.

Either way, in a country where; in the midst of this shitshow, the talking point for over 24 hours can be what someone wears to a public ceremony; I think Corbyn has done remarkably well to ensure most headlines are about the Tory side of things. Whether by design, accident or divine intervention.

67chevvyimpala · 13/03/2019 16:12

Me too DG

Not sure how Gove would become a remainer PM given his leave antics

67chevvyimpala · 13/03/2019 16:13

Gove is a dangerous man

BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2019 16:15

NI border No Deal

JPCampbellBiz@JPBiz

Would the NI no-deal tariff arrangements mean Irish Sea checks? '

No', brief UK govt. '

Yes', says a slightly unsure Chief Secretary to the Treasury.

🤦🏻‍♀️🤯
.....
Katy Haywardd@haywardk*aty

Another issue is whether these arrangements wd be legal.

MFN principle wd make it very odd (to say the least) to apply different rules at different parts of your border.

How do we determine the origin of goods crossing @BorderIrishh^ if they don't need to be declared?^
.....
The repeated promise of ‘no new checks or controls at the land border’ does mean limited new checks & controls at sea & air entry points , plus checks on trader premises.

Note: reference to products from 'outside the EU' presumably inc. those from post-Brexit GB 🌏
6/10
....
It mentions ‘the challenge posed by organised criminals seeking to exploit any new system’ but it offers no means to combat this.

Worse: currently very unclear on what the compliance regime is.

Even worse: it undermines the incentive for businesses to be legally compliant.
7/10
...
In particular, VAT is a potential issue.
To avoid having to pay VAT on entry to NI (as would be the logical system), the systems of VAT registration, tracking & accounting will need to be rigorous, tight & enforced.

Outside VIES = a bit of a chasm?
8/10

Somerville · 13/03/2019 16:15

Anyone but Gove.
I really mean that.
He said:
"The real cause of conflict in Northern Ireland has not been the British presence, but British policy to dilute that presence."
And at every opportunity he confirms that this remains his position.

TalkinPaece · 13/03/2019 16:16

DO NOT trust Gove. Look at the damage he did to schools.
every school should be above average
the man is dangerous.
He believes rather than gives weight to evidence. Angry

DGRossetti · 13/03/2019 16:16

Just thinking aloud here, but could the govt charge Farage/Banks with hostility or putting the country at deliberate risk of harm?

Farage might get a pass being an MEP. (Unless he's breaking EP rules Hmm)

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 13/03/2019 16:17

I could never have any trust in Gove. Ever. I just hate Boris Johnson more.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/03/2019 16:17

Unfortunately the alternatives are even worse
and very stupid

Violetparis · 13/03/2019 16:18

Has the Spelman amendment been dropped ?

Somerville · 13/03/2019 16:20

Not this time (yet)

SparklySneakers · 13/03/2019 16:23

New thread already?!
Really nervous about tonight's vote. I feel it's the cruncher more so than last night. The depending on tonight tomorrow even worse. At least by tomorrow we should put an end to the torture of not knowing. Possibly.

67chevvyimpala · 13/03/2019 16:23

Clarke is the only Tory I trust atm

TheABC · 13/03/2019 16:24

I have given up on Brexit. At this stage, I am waiting for either:
A) The Tory party to implode
B) For them to be decimated in the next GE.

Their show, their mess.

I am tempted to come to the march in two weeks, but as the sole carer -slave- of two under-fives, I don't trust them to stay with me in a crowd. My family all voted for Brexit, so no help there