So May has lost the vote. Now what?!

[BIWI]

Lost it by a big margin - 391 to 242.

Please, God, that means we're nearer to staying in the EU.

Unfortunately even if brexit is cancelled our economy has been damaged for a generation, little englanders have ruined many of our kids futures.

RockyFlintstone, of course the UK can leave the EU. The problem is the consequences are potentially catastrophic.

Well quite. I don't want the reason for the UK to stay in the EU to be that it is impossible to leave without catastrophic consequences. I want it to be because there there are benefits for everyone involved.

And obviously the Irish border issue is huge here. Which is why I still just cannot believe that it barely even came up at all during the (absolutely woeful) remain campaign. It just seemed to creep up on everyone as if it wasn't an issue that had been staring everyone in the face the whole time. Why didn't Remain highlight it at all?

Ideally I want a people's vote now and enough people to see sense and we can call the whole thing off. But even that is far from ideal now for so many reasons. Anything is far from ideal now. Its a shit show.

And as much as I disagree with Surferjet, they are right that there were problems within the EU that weren't being fixed and they absolutely weren't interested in the UK suggestions to change things.

they absolutely weren't interested in the UK suggestions to change things

True. Cameron attempted to renegotiate UK's position in EU, but nothing happened. Hence he agreed to a referendum.

Rocky, there can and could never be benefits on all sides to leaving. It was always going to be damage limitation. Over decades, a system has been built up to everyone's mutual benefit. Taking that apart is going backwards.

And I agree with you that the remain "campaign" was practically non-existant and those incompetent self-serving fuckers would not get my vote, if I had one. Which I don't.

I just posted above what I appreciate about life in an EU country.

Who can imagine a conservative government achieving that level of competence? Or even thinking it was a worthwhile aspiration?

Sounds very like a threat to reignite the attacks in the UK mainland as experienced in the last century. If so you might get some help from leave voters if Brexit does not happen?

Not a threat at all, but a possibility. As I said the people of NI gave up a lot to get peace, but that peace is fragile.

And as there are no guarantees of civil rights once the UK leaves then I can understand people being nervous, to say the least.

Does anyone really want to return to a time where interview questions included whether you were RC or protestant? And yes that did happen both in NI and other parts of the UK but more so in NI.

rocky & surferjet
Not true, the EU offered Cameron more special treatment for the uk- key offer being a guarantee to not be drawn into further integration within the EU.
It wasn't enough for the ERG types, what a surprise! He should never have given in to them as they've steered the course towards this shit show

Over decades, a system has been built up to everyone's mutual benefit. Taking that apart is going backwards

Those that voted leave obviously don't agree with that statement.

Not true, the EU offered Cameron more special treatment for the uk- key offer being a guarantee to not be drawn into further integration within the EU.

That's the thing, isn't it, Songsofexperience - it's never about how can we partake more fully and make reforms which will help the whole EU; it's always about what extra special deals can the UK get? A two tier EU was suggested, with the UK being in the outer tier, which is probably where it would be happier, but Cameron rejected this, wanting to be at the 'top table'. But then he's the man who wanted to be PM because he thought he'd be good at it, and has shown himself to be weak and ineffectual.

Again, right question (what to do to improve neglected parts of the country) WRONG answer. How is wilful destruction going to help?

Absolutely peregrina
One man's ego was enough to take us down. Usual story really. Wish Shakespeare was alive to make it into a classic.

That doesn't make them right MissedTheBoatAgain
Even the politicians in charge of this shit show have confessed their ignorance about the workings of the EU and how trade agreements work. On numerous occasions. Time and time again.

Ignorance is no excuse.

A responsible government would not have organised the referendum in the first place because hardly anyone understood what "leave" would mean. That is not a slur. I mean that across the board, leavers or remainders.

I am sure that many of the EU countries that do not have an abundance of natural resources would love to have had the rebates that the UK enjoys.
With the UK prime minister wanting to be at the top table within the EU should mean responsibility, not a continual stream of whining and angling for opt outs. And then you have Farage who is essentially a loudmouth shitstirer trying to undermine the efforts of others.
Currently saying the UK should be out of the UK but happy to receive his £80K a year salary from the EU.

Has nobody got a comment on my experience of life in an EU country?

It illustrates how society can be organised to the benefit of its citizens.

Posted at 8.18.

Yes theshuttle but i think therr are only two types of posters on here: those who already know this, and those for whom ideology is everything so they won't even hear it.

{Ignorance is no excuse. }
It would be very interesting to know how many of the HoC and cabinet have actually read and understand the WA document.
They are happily voting it down but have they read and understood it?
Some in cabinet have admitted they haven't read it.

No deal and WTO rules.

tensixtysix
Apt name for someone who advocates something that will really take us back to the dark ages.

{ Tensixtysix Wed 13-Mar-19 08:52:17

No deal and WTO rules.}

OK you can, and possibly will get your wish.
Now please explain what wonderful improvements there will be in the UK in say 6 months time, or a year.
You have obviously researched all aspects thoroughly so you can tell everyone.
Maybe start be explaining tariffs of 60% on beef will help farmers and how it will be reflected in the price in the shops.
The 60% tariff was announced by the government this morning.

I was watching the vote live last night on LBC on Twitter. The amount of people who were saying 'let's go no deal, WTO!' was ALOT. Many brexitors want this.

That's just a result of successful propaganda

I'm not sure they are all aware of what it actually involves though. Someone said they couldn't see why people thought 'no deal' was a problem and everything would be 'back to normal' by the end of April!! Many don't realise all our trade agreements will effectively be destroyed and then need to be renegotiated. Not a quick process.

Personally I hope the whole thing gets shelved, stupidest idea and handling of it ever but I can live in hope.

{I'm not sure they are all aware of what it actually involves though. Someone said they couldn't see why people thought 'no deal' was a problem and everything would be 'back to normal' by the end of April!!}

The EU have made a 'best guess' and their 'no deal' planning makes provisions for 9 months to a year or (hopefully controlled) crap.
the WA, in a reasonably controlled departure is estimated to take around 2-3 years.
Anyone suggesting it will be significantly quicker than this just hasn't a clue.

Yes, Songs, this is the culmination of anti-Euro propoganda spread through the gutter press to sell papers.

I still feel sorry for all those hard of thinking who are potentially going to be hit hard on the head by any no-deal outcome. They don't even see it coming.

My family don't understand my reluctance of booking my usual road trip home this summer but I have no plans to risk the drive on the road to Calais or along the possible M20 lorry park.

Will there be food in the shops when we arrive? Will there be medical treatment available if we need it?

My family tell me everything will be just fine.

Hollow laugh.

Many disciplines in academia will be kept busy untangling how this whole situation has come about for a long time.