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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

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RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 13:59

RTB, can we have a general election, council elections, european parliament elections AND a referendum all one the same day?! We could call it Democracy Day.

No.

EU elections have to be 23 - 25th May. Council elections are already set for a different date. And there is not enough time to legislate for another ref.

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RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 14:00

Worth pointing out that if we have a GE, then the HoC goes into recess. And we can't legislate for EP elections in time.

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ContinuityError · 12/03/2019 14:01

Hope it doesn’t delay the vote too much tonight - Shetland is on at 9pm and I need to get my Douglas Henshall windswept Scottish desolation fix.

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 14:05

Worth pointing out that if we have a GE, then the HoC goes into recess. And we can't legislate for EP elections in time.

Which rather reduces the possibility of an extension being offered on the basis of a GE ... I can't see the EU risking the possibility that the new governments first decision is to not hold EP elections.

And as we know, no parliament can bind it's successors.

TheABC · 12/03/2019 14:10

Aaaargh!

Nothing useful to add except "thanks" to @RedToothBrush for the clear updates on this fracas.

NoWordForFluffy · 12/03/2019 14:13

Maybe we should all just take strong analgesics til this is over?

Mine make me travel sick even when I'm sitting still, so I wouldn't recommend it! 🤢

I'm going to cling onto hope with my remaining fingernails that sense is somehow going to prevail and MPs will make the right choice (I don't care if it's for the wrong reason!).

HazardGhost · 12/03/2019 14:24

Pmk

Glad this day has finally arrived so we can get it out the way.

CordeliaEarhart · 12/03/2019 14:39

I've been trying to figure out the likelihood of each of the potential scenarios and gave up. Turns out betting websites have helpful political sections - currently 1/16 that it will not pass.

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 14:41

I've been trying to figure out the likelihood of each of the potential scenarios and gave up. Turns out betting websites have helpful political sections - currently 1/16 that it will not pass.

Bookmakers odds are one step removed from reality. They are an expression of what people think could happen.

Camomila · 12/03/2019 14:44

Feel more than usually sorry for TM today...her voice has completely gone...croak, croak, croak.

I'm hoping for a no to the WA tonight followed by a long extension and 2nd referendum with revoke at the end. A girl can dream!

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 12/03/2019 14:47

I’m sitting here willing her just to get through this statement, Camomila.

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 14:49

Feel more than usually sorry for TM today

Nope, sorry. I feel sorry for the Windrush families.

Somerville · 12/03/2019 14:52

I feel sorry for all the people fucking terrified at what their futures hold because of her.

CordeliaEarhart · 12/03/2019 14:52

They are an expression of what people think could happen.

Well, yes. That's the point - they are a barometer of general opinions on the matter.

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 14:53

How to win friends and influence people - the Theresa May way:

www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/17494758.nicola-sturgeon-told-by-theresa-may-she-was-not-bright-enough-to-understand-brexit-deal/

Scotland’s First Minister was told she “simply wasn’t bright enough to understand how good [Theresa May’s Brexit] deal was” in a meeting with the Prime Minister, MPs have heard.

(contd)

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 12/03/2019 14:54

May has just said No Deal or No Brexit would not be the fault of the EU.

I did not expect that.

prettybird · 12/03/2019 14:56

Joanna Cherry QC pointed out to her that as a matter of law the WA is a treaty and the "interpretative instrument" does not have the same status in law Hmm

May responded that because they were treating the two in parallel, she considered them to have the same legal status Confused

Progressing a bit further, May then states that the WA and the interpretative instrument have the same legal status Hmm She is just plain wrong and is deliberately misleading parliament Angry - and directly contradicting what The Codpiece had stated (that the two don't have the same status) Angry

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 14:56

May has just said No Deal or No Brexit would not be the fault of the EU.

Shock Shock Shock Shock Shock Shock

I did not expect that.

x1,000 !!!!!

Is that a direct quote ?

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 12/03/2019 14:58

Hang on DG I’m going to rewind the telly and check. I may be having some sort of episode!

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 12/03/2019 15:00

I think it was more that if the deal is voted down and we crash out of the EU with no deal or end up stayingthat will be Parliament’s fault, not the EU’s

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 12/03/2019 15:01

Obviously it won’t be her fault.

lonelyplanetmum · 12/03/2019 15:03

If crash out of the EU with no deal or end up staying

why are we looking for fault rather than credit?

2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney · 12/03/2019 15:05

Quite happy with “no Brexit.” Bring it on !

Camomila · 12/03/2019 15:06

Has anyone (MP) ever interjected with 'but the referendum would have been illegal/broke all sorts of laws/was invalid!' I would be doing it all the time!

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 12/03/2019 15:06

DG
Having spoken of the risk of No Deal or a PV with all the risks that entails:

‘If any of these things were to happen it would be no good blaming the Suropean Union, the responsibility would lie with this House’