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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

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RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 15:07

Ian Dunt @IanDunt
May says voting down this deal could lead to no-deal or a second referendum. "If any of these things were to happen, it would be no good blaming the EU. Responsibility would lie with this House. Our failure to come together in the national interest."

I will check Hansard later.

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SingingBabooshkaBadly · 12/03/2019 15:07

European even.

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 15:07

As things stand, the only way we could stay is for her to revoke A50.

Is she trying to corral MPs between revoke and no deal into this WA ?

I can't see it ending well.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 12/03/2019 15:08

Red Just re-watched it. That’s what she said.

AutumnCrow · 12/03/2019 15:08

I'm going to miss the vote at 7pm because I'll be in an MRI scanner (ooh exciting) while the NHS is still functioning.

I'll come back from hospital and join you all hopefully.

TalkinPaece · 12/03/2019 15:09

Just place marking with a video I popped onto the old thread that is somehow deeply appropriate

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 15:10

May says voting down this deal could lead to no-deal or a second referendum. "If any of these things were to happen, it would be no good blaming the EU. Responsibility would lie with this House. Our failure to come together in the national interest."

Colour me surprised !

67chevvyimpala · 12/03/2019 15:11

No Brexit please

TalkinPaece · 12/03/2019 15:12

I just realised which politician has been utterly silent at a really good time to be utterly silent .....

Ruth Davidson

SusanWalker · 12/03/2019 15:12

Everytime TM says we risk not leaving at all I say yes please to the TV. Mind you I always say you're welcome (in my head) to the self service checkout when they thank me for shopping at Morrisons.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 12/03/2019 15:13

That’s thrown me so much I’m not sure I’ve actually absorbed anything more since she said it. Corbyn has been speaking for some time and all I can hear is blah blah blah.

Though, to be fair, that’s probably pretty much what he’s saying...

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 15:14

Lewis Goodall @lewis_goodall
Jacob Rees Mogg says tells @KayBurley that he hasn't yet made a decision as to how he will vote but says he thinks abstentions "aren't a realistic prospect." Says only reason to vote for this "bad deal" is prospect of Brexit being cancelled which he "doesn't think is likely."

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NoWordForFluffy · 12/03/2019 15:16

Surely her plan hasn't been to shepherd the end result round to revoke?! 😱

As if today couldn't get any weirder.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 12/03/2019 15:16

It is pretty much what he’s saying.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 15:18

To be fair to Ruth Davidson, she had a baby in October and is on maternity leave until the 4th May.

Convenient timing for Ruth, but I think that asking why she's been so quiet and isn't sticking her oar in, does have an explanation, that perhaps is fair.

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DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 15:19

To be fair to Ruth Davidson, she had a baby in October and is on maternity leave until the 4th May.

Employers note ....

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 12/03/2019 15:20

Nowordforfluffy. I’m going to allow myself to believe that’s the case for the next hour or so. Just because I want to feel that happy for a while.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 15:21

I think its great the MSPs are able to do something that everyone else but MPs are entitled to do.

So I'm not going to knock Davidson for taking her leave. Even if its political great timing for her on a personal level.

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SusanWalker · 12/03/2019 15:24

I think RD will be Tory leader after the next one. We'll have a brexiteer next who will crash and burn (because they're mostly inadequate) and then Ruth will come in.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 15:24

And on that note:

Glenn Campbell @GlennBBC
The MP Douglas Ross @Douglas4Moray - who voted against deal last time - will not be voting tonight as his wife has gone into labour with their first child

He says he asked for a proxy vote under the new system but was too told he would have had to apply the day before

Asked how he would have voted @Douglas4Moray says he would have made up his mind at the end of the debate, having heard all the arguments

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SusanWalker · 12/03/2019 15:27

Boris smirking in the background like he's innocent of all wrongdoing.

TalkinPaece · 12/03/2019 15:27

RTB
I am well aware that RD is on maternity leave
and I bet she's bloody relieved that she has a good reason to stay well clear of the omnishambles
and can then pootle back in
just after the local council election results
and stake a claim
Grin

NoWordForFluffy · 12/03/2019 15:27

I’m going to allow myself to believe that’s the case for the next hour or so. Just because I want to feel that happy for a while.

Talk about a bonkers way of doing something if it is the case! Machiavellian or what?!

Though it isn't. It can't be. That would be ludicrous!

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 15:28

Boris smirking in the background like he's innocent of all wrongdoing.

Must mean he's quite certain he won't be the next Tory leader then - bad news for some other poor* sod

*=irony ...

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 15:28

Dom Walsh @DomWalsh13
I make it 7 Tories confirmed as having switched to the deal so far:
- Greg Hands
- Robert Halfon
- Mike Penning
- Mark Pritchard
- John Lamont
- Ben Bradley
- Nigel Evans

Others rumoured too

Dom Walsh @DomWalsh13
Another 6 according to Guido:
- James Gray
- Johnny Mercer
- Laurence Robertson
- Robert Syms
- Derek Thomas
- Martin Vickers

Dom Walsh @DomWalsh13
14 - Scott Mann. Like Bradley, he resigned over Chequers.

Just another 102 to go...

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