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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

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Thread gallery
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TalkinPaece · 12/03/2019 20:43

Postnot
TM has always been able to unilaterally revoke without the permission of the Hoc

cherin · 12/03/2019 20:44

And that’s going to take them exactly...? We’ve got 16 days. And once you know what you want, if it’s a unicorn how’s that going to help in the negotiation with the counterpart?? I’ve listened to Chuka Umunna and honestly I felt like crying...

The80sweregreat · 12/03/2019 20:44

Kay burley and co were undercover today. I can't say I blame them, it's freezing.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 20:45

Post May doesn't need the HoC to Revoke - she just has to write a letter to the EU Commission -
but politically, she probably won't revoke unless they instruct her to do so

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 12/03/2019 20:45

I thought May could just revoke without a vote in the House - not saying I think she would but that’s been my understanding and I’m sure it’s been repeated many times in these threads. Why would she now need a Commons vote?

HazardGhost · 12/03/2019 20:45

TM can revoke by herself doesn't need MPs.. I think.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 12/03/2019 20:46

Ah, cross post with Big Choc.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 12/03/2019 20:46

And Hazard!

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 12/03/2019 20:46

My understanding was she could revoke without needing to have the HoC vote on it, Post.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 20:47

Heidi Allen is right
We need indicative votes to find what the hell MPs would vote for - that is not a unicorn

If there is no majority for anything, it's No Deal
So they'd better find something

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 12/03/2019 20:48

Kay burley and co were undercover today. I can't say I blame them, it's freezing.

I read that and initially thought 'but surely they'd recognise her face around the Commons.'

Doh Grin

PostNotInHaste · 12/03/2019 20:48

Thanks, just wanted to check that hadn’t changed at any point, with everything going on it’s easy to miss things.

Sostenueto · 12/03/2019 20:49

Tbh I'm unclear as to whether we are in a better position now TMs WA is voted down or whether its back to square one! I'm so confused about it all now.Sad

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 20:49

Is May theoretically able to unilaterally revoke under Henry Vlll powers bypassing HOC or is that not open to her at this point? Not that I think she would but just wondering.

As it's a treaty the protocol is that technically may might be able to revoke unilaterally. This might be challenged legally but timing might prevent that. As it stands there are currently opposing legal opinions about this and no court ruling.

Politically speaking though after the A50 case, May will need to take it to HoC.

Which doesn't answer your question particularly.

Answer is yes but, no but. The reality is it depends on timing and politics of the moment it becomes an option.

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SparklySneakers · 12/03/2019 20:50

Not sure if I feel relieved and less anxious and more hopeful or more anxious at the continued uncertainty.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 20:50

Tbh I'm unclear as to whether we are in a better position now TMs WA is voted down or whether its back to square one! I'm so confused about it all now.

There are 650 important people asking the same thing tonight.

I would not worry about not being sure which it is.

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FiddleFaddleDingDong · 12/03/2019 20:51

Quite Interesting
‏*@qikipedia*
Independence from Britain is celebrated somewhere in the world, on average, one in every seven days.

Butterymuffin · 12/03/2019 20:52

Just looking at the Guardian's list of how every MP voted.

Shows what a weird set of divisions and alliances the referendum has brought about. Next to each other on the list are Vicky Foxcroft, Lewisham and Deptford, 75% constituency vote for Remain, and Mark Francois, Rayleigh and Wickford, constituency vote 68% Leave. Both voted against the government tonight. It's been a very different world since June 2016.

Littlespaces · 12/03/2019 20:57

I now have a split personality.

Half hopeful Pollyanna,

half anxious wreck.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 20:59

If we get an extension, the UK will need shiploads of Valium
And wine
and chocolate - Lindt not that horrid Cadbury vomit

Littlespaces · 12/03/2019 21:01

@JohnnyPixels

"EU lays down a royal flush. UK looks at own cards: Mr Bun the Baker, Pikachu, a Shadowmage, a fireball spell, and the Fool."

snigger

67chevvyimpala · 12/03/2019 21:01

I'm very confused.

PestyMachtubernahme · 12/03/2019 21:02

With you BCF

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?
RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 21:03

Mark Wallace @ wallaceme
Graham Brady says it would be “a clear breach” of the Conservative manifesto for MPs to vote for delaying Brexit.

George Trefgarne @georgetrefgarne
Yet Steve Baker is intending to vote for a delay to May 22nd

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67chevvyimpala · 12/03/2019 21:04

Ive got some lovely dark choc with raspberry from lidl.

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