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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

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RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 20:20

Steven Swinford@steven_swinford
This is how surreal Brexit gets:

The Government is offering a free vote on its no deal motion

BUT Labour is prepared to whip for an amended version of the same motion

Apparently Spelman, Dromey et al are preparing to table an amendment that rejects no deal outright

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borntobequiet · 12/03/2019 20:21

Obviously you won’t be able to see black hole 50 pence pieces because light won’t be able to escape from them. And you won’t be able to pick them up either, too heavy. Stupid idea!

dreichuplands · 12/03/2019 20:21

holiday I wonder if it is because without leaving with a deal the other two options of not leaving or leaving with no deal both increase with likelihood.
In a kind of Russian roulette idea.

Ineedachange · 12/03/2019 20:21

We currently live in the US, DH is in London this week for the Book Fair. I haven't been watching this closely enough lately but I need to - we're coming home in a couple of months.

DH tells me that BBC Parliament is on the big screen in the pub.

Heck! I miss home

icannotremember · 12/03/2019 20:21

@prettybird he's coming up 13. Not normally interested in politics so this is my chance to engage him, only if anything this seems to be increasing his scorn.

SparklySneakers · 12/03/2019 20:23

Fuck. No surprise there then. Just caught up after missing the action due to bedtime.
So what will the next two days bring I wonder.

TalkinPaece · 12/03/2019 20:25

How stupid are these fuckwits in the HoC?
You can only avoid No Deal by having a deal
but they just voted down the only available deal Angry

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 12/03/2019 20:25

Jo Maugham QC
@JolyonMaugham
You can legislate to take No Deal off the table but you can ONLY do it by legislation that states that unless a deal has been ratified on the day before we leave the EU, Article 50 shall be revoked.

Jo Maugham QC
@JolyonMaugham
The majority of MPs, who will tomorrow vote against No Deal, are going to have to grasp that nettle. There is no alternative

PostNotInHaste · 12/03/2019 20:28

So if they vote for against No Deal tomorrow does that make it legally binding for the Government to stop No Deal happening on 29th March? Or not as there’s a bit at the end noting that it’s the current default situation but doesn’t actually say it has to stop it? Hence Cooper sounding worried earlier?

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 12/03/2019 20:30

Isn’t it more likely because we can’t just extend. The EU have to agree to us extending and they won’t do that unless there’s a reason to I.e. something other than just bringing the WA back to be voted down for the 3rd time.

Belindabelle · 12/03/2019 20:31

Just when you think things can’t get any worse!

MICHAEL GOVE AS PM AND NICKY MORGAN AS CHANCELLOR

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 20:32

Nick Gutteridge @nick_gutteridge
Dutch PM speaks. Almost identical to statements from Donald Tusk and Jean-Claude Juncker. The EU has a clear, pre-agreed a line on this:

🤚 No more negotiation
🇬🇧 It's all down to London
🇮🇪 Standing by Ireland
😬 Ramping up no deal prep
⏲️ Extension comes with strict Ts & Cs

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67chevvyimpala · 12/03/2019 20:32

Have the ayes and noes lists been posted yet

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 20:32

2 statements saying No Deal now more likely ...

EU statement:

"With only 17 days left to 29 March, today's vote has significantly increased the likelihood of a 'no-deal' Brexit.

We will continue our no-deal preparations and ensure that we will be ready if such a scenario arise

.....Should there be a U.K. reasoned request for an extension, the EU27 will consider it and decide by unanimity.

The EU27 will expect a credible justification for a possible extension and its duration

The smooth functioning of the EU institutions will need to be ensured.”
< i.e. EP elections >

Barnier

“On EU side we’ve done all that’s possible to reach an agreement
It’s difficult to see what more we can do.

If there’s a solution to the current impasse it can only be found in London.
Today’s vote has significantly increased the likelihood of no-deal Brexit.”
.....
EU diplomat

"I don't think the EU27 should do anything any more.
It should simply wait for U.K. to decide by March 29.
If the U.K. asks for an extension, it should specify what the purpose would be.

If it would be only for continuation of the present ping-pong, I don't think we should agree."

https://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-reaction-brexit-deal-defeat/

Tanith · 12/03/2019 20:33

"You can only avoid No Deal by having a deal"

Not quite true... you can also avoid No Deal by revoking and staying in the EU.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 20:35

If the HoC wishes to Revoke, it has to vote for this

SusanWalker · 12/03/2019 20:37

Does anyone else watch all the news presenters outside parliament and number ten and hope they have thermals on under their suits?

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 20:37

Have the ayes and noes lists been posted yet

They are on the parliament app. Not sure about hansard

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BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 20:39

Looks like EU would stick to "No more negotiation"

but they've always said they'd extend for a PV

So if we want a longer extension, looks like that would have to be the justification

  • but again the HoC must vote for it first

It is No Deal unless the HoC vote for something else
let's see if they do this week

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 20:40

Esther Webber@estwebber
So this is how tomorrow shapes up:

  • PMQs
  • Spring statement
  • Vote on leaving with no deal 😱

PS The government was defeated twice on the Healthcare Bill today, which is meant to pave the way for reciprocal healthcare after Brexit. No biggie

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PostNotInHaste · 12/03/2019 20:40

Is May theoretically able to unilaterally revoke under Henry Vlll powers bypassing HOC or is that not open to her at this point? Not that I think she would but just wondering.

NoWordForFluffy · 12/03/2019 20:40

I would think that votes will now be tabled, given TM's speech which raised the second ref option, to decide what the HoC actually does want.

BoreOfWhabylon · 12/03/2019 20:42

Breathless placemat

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 20:43

Heidi Allen MP @ heidiallen75
The next 48hrs will be critical - MPs need to get "no deal" unequivocally off the table, extend Article 50 for a decent amount of time and allow Parliament its rightful role - we need indicative votes to find a way forward. @TheIndGroup #righttovote #PeoplesVote

I have to say today's vote I always thought a forgone conclusion. It's the next couple of days which are more important.

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BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 20:43

Jonathan Freedland@Freedland

In outlining possible options, Theresa May mentioned a second referendum.

Jeremy Corbyn didn’t.

< he really doesn't want one and if we have one, would probably hinder Remain as he did the last time >

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