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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

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DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 21:04

We'll be trying a butterscotch schnapps I picked up at our local homebrew store last week. Made with 40% alcohol and put in the freezer (a la Limoncello ...)

Did the WA not pass ? My, what a shock ....

NoWordForFluffy · 12/03/2019 21:04

We won't just get an extension to keep going round on the merry-go-round. It will only be given to allow legislation to be passed post-WA acceptance or to allow a second vote, or something similar. Hopefully a second vote wouldn't be nerve-wracking, though you don't know that. It'll certainly be interesting to see the leave campaign now that their lies have been exposed. It'll be tough for them to show any positives!

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 21:05

Graham Brady says it would be “a clear breach” of the Conservative manifesto for MPs to vote for delaying Brexit.

Is this the same manifesto saying the UK would not leave the single market ? Probably best forgotten, old chap.

prettybird · 12/03/2019 21:06

Grin borntobequiet - true.

It's a very pretty 50p coin, in honour of Stephen Hawking - better than anything to do with Brexit Grin

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?
FiddleFaddleDingDong · 12/03/2019 21:06

@67chevvyimpala I love that raspberry dark chocolate from Lidl. The one with crunchy caramel bits is also lovely.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 21:07

Sam Coates Times@samcoatestimes
Malthouse amendment goes down

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?
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GetRid · 12/03/2019 21:08

Thing is, there's still time for a MV3 isn't there? And if that happens right at the end of the month then - looking down the barrel of no deal or May's deal - it might just get over the line. Isn't that what Olly Robbins said in that bar a few weeks ago?

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 21:09

Mary Creagh @ marycreagh
Just signed this amendment to PMs motion for tomorrow. Rejects false premise that PMs deal is default. There is another way.
⁦*@peoplesvote*_uk⁩

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?
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golondrina · 12/03/2019 21:10

PMK

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 21:15

Robert Saunders @ redhistorian
Tonight is a reminder of the constitutional damage that's been done by letting party members - not MPs - choose party leaders. It has severed the central artery of the British parliamentary system: that a Prime Minister must command the confidence of the House of Commons.[THREAD]

2. Traditionally, when a Prime Minister can no longer carry their legislation through the Commons, there are two possible remedies: you can either change the Prime Minister, finding someone who does command a majority, or elect a new Parliament. Both are now more difficult.

3. If May were to resign, the new leader would be chosen by Tory activists - who mostly support "No Deal". But MPs overwhelmingly oppose No Deal. Far from solving the problem, the new PM would be even more out of step with parliamentary opinion than May

Previous post
Robert Saunders @redhistorian
Great thread from @ProfTimBale: 57% of Tory members actively want "No Deal". Three-quarters would back it in a referendum vs Remain. 76% think economic warnings are "exaggerated or invented" & 64% think it would boost the economy. Are we sure "member-led parties" are a good idea? t.co/kpfIq6nYQf

Robert Saunders @redhistorian
4. Traditionally, the alternative is to call an election: but after the debacle of 2017, Tories would want to fight under a new leader. That now means balloting the members, which would take weeks - at a time when the clock is ticking - and would showcase the party's divisions.

4. Traditionally, the alternative is to call an election: but after the debacle of 2017, Tories would want to fight under a new leader. That now means balloting the members, which would take weeks - at a time when the clock is ticking - and would showcase the party's divisions.

5. It used to be a strength of the British constitution that it could change prime ministers in a matter of days - as when Major replaced Thatcher or Macmillan replaced Eden. That's only possible now if the party can avoid a contest altogether - locking the membership out.

6. The British political system only works if the Executive has the confidence of Parliament. Yet both the circuit-breakers that historically applied in a crisis of this kind have been disabled. So we're stuck with a PM in whom MPs have no confidence, but cannot safely remove.

7. In choosing to empower their members, parties have disempowered MPs. But parties are not private members clubs: they have to workour political institutions. In cutting the link between front & back benches, they've done lasting damage - & brought a Brexit crisis closer. END

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Butterymuffin · 12/03/2019 21:15

On Aldi's own fruit and nut

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 21:16

Jennifer Rankin @jennifermerode
EU v on message about extension tonight.

In private some leaning to longish extension, but no default position on how long. Others impatient/worried about being tangled up in Brexit for too long.

Wild card element is that EU leaders have never discussed the question

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GhostofFrankGrimes · 12/03/2019 21:16

I suspect MV3 will happen.

QueenMabby · 12/03/2019 21:20

I’ve raided the Quality Street. I was desperate. I don’t even like it.
Parallels to the MPs and the WA invited.... 😂😂

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 21:22

Mark Wallace @wallaceme
NB NB: @PhilipDaviesUK voted for the deal. He's such a long-standing + core Leaver that in 2005 he became the only MP to publicly support leaving the EU. Should be a clear message to those ppl who are absurdly making out that switchers are somehow soft

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RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 21:23

Sebastian Payne @SebastianePayne
Here are the 40 MPs who switched to back Theresa May:

David Amess
Bob Blackman
Ben Bradley
Graham Brady
Fiona Bruce
Maria Caulfield
Tracey Crouch
Philip Davies
David Davis
Nadine Dorries
Steve Double
Nigel Evans
David Evennett
Zac Goldsmith
Robert Halfon
Greg Hands
John Hayes

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RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 21:23

Interesting names on that list.

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PestyMachtubernahme · 12/03/2019 21:27

Red that @ProfTimBale thread is scary.

Tanith · 12/03/2019 21:28

"If the HoC wishes to Revoke, it has to vote for this"

I live in hope 🙏

Didn't TM (and JH) say that to reject her deal is to risk no Brexit at all?

BiglyBadgers · 12/03/2019 21:29

I have a nice night of cocoa because I am old before my time.

PestyMachtubernahme · 12/03/2019 21:50

Didn't TM (and JH) say that to reject her deal is to risk no Brexit at all? yep Tanith , they said it. But, how much weight does a Tory word hold?

If not extra legislation is passed (ie revoke) we are heading for an unfortunate default No-Deal.

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 12/03/2019 21:51

Nicholas Watt
@nicholaswatt
Leave minister tells me: Brexit is over. No deal will be taken off the table tomorrow

@nicholaswatt
Leave minister says parliament will knock out Theresa May’s no deal motion, which keeps it as default position, and vote instead for amendment tabled by Jack Dromey and Caroline Spelman which rules out no deal altogether

@nicholaswatt
The new Dromey / Spelman amendment says: “This house rejects the UK leaving the EU without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship.”

DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 12/03/2019 21:51

PMK, with a groan of absolute horror at this almighty clusterfuck.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 21:55

Lionel Barber @ lionelbarber
Sir Graham Brady says he is ready to vote for NO deal Brexit tmw on grounds it will offer certainty for business and respect referendum result. Well, driving off a cliff gives you certainty - in a wacko way #BrexitCrisis

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PestyMachtubernahme · 12/03/2019 21:57

This house rejects the UK leaving the EU without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship.
TM is going to see that as a belated acceptance of her deal. The blinkers are firmly on.

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