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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

OP posts:
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Loletta · 12/03/2019 20:00

Robert Peston: We are now into Neverexit - Brexit delay as PM will try and try again to get her deal through parliament. Her colleagues tell me they are sure she will find a way to bring her deal back, as and when EU agrees short Brexit delay

Nooooooo!! My optimism hasn't lasted long!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 20:00

Tusk:
“Given the additional assurances provided by the EU in December, January and yesterday, it is difficult to see what more we can do.

If there is a solution to the current impasse it can only be found in London”

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 20:02

I visualise Tusk, Barnier, Merkel, Macron rocking in a corner together

and Juncker rolling on the floor, totally out of it

CordeliaEarhart · 12/03/2019 20:02

Got home from kids party just in time to pour a glass of wine and watch the result. Finally caught up on the thread while watching BBC. I think I just saw Nicky Morgan say that we say we could be facing another meaningful vote in a few days - she didn't mean another vote on the WA did she?!

prettybird · 12/03/2019 20:03

Loathsome just said with a straight face that it was still the Government's intention (if at all possible) to leave the EU on 29 March with a good deal Shock

The unicorns are strong in this one Hmm

Sostenueto · 12/03/2019 20:03

TM will try to put her deal again you mark my words. Oh not again Brenda!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 20:04

.

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?
prettybird · 12/03/2019 20:05

"Shoogly" = shaky

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 20:06

Thanks, pretty Smile

Is all this vocab what the DUP want as their official language in NI, or is that something else ?

TalkinPaece · 12/03/2019 20:07

Programme on BBC4 about Japan is very relaxing at the moment Smile

WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 12/03/2019 20:07

bigchoc shoogly = wobbly.

As pretty (much more knowledgable than me!) says above, usually used in context such as his jaiket’s on a shoogly peg = his job is insecure.

CordeliaEarhart · 12/03/2019 20:09

Can you write to an MP who isn't your MP or is it a complete waste of time?

Holidayshopping · 12/03/2019 20:11

I still don’t understand what shoogly means!?

Holidayshopping · 12/03/2019 20:12

Ahhh—shaky!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 20:12

She is a busybee atm ...

Lewis Goodall@lewis_goodall

Nicky Morgan tells me the PM should consider her position and that “in normal circumstances” her cabinet would be considering telling her the game is up.

dreichuplands · 12/03/2019 20:12

Dh has just appeared and asked how the minting of the new 50 pence is going. I had forgotten that was planned.

prettybird · 12/03/2019 20:12

Don't think so: I think Irish (even Norn Irish) is different again. There may be words that are common though - don't know enough about Northern Ireland.

These words are a mix of Lallans, Scots, Gaelic, Doric and local slang (which probably use all of those as sources). Lallans (Lowlands Scots) has a lot in common with German and Doric with Old Norse.

Lewis Crassic Gibbon's The Sunset Song trilogy is a good introduction to Lallans (I had to study Sunset Song for O Grade English and read the other 2 for pleasure Smile)

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 12/03/2019 20:13

Is the Brexit Festival still on the cards, I wonder.

SusanWalker · 12/03/2019 20:14

Rumours abound on twitter that Nicky Morgan has been offered Chancellor under Gove, which is why she has changed direction on brexit, and may explain why she's now keen on a change of PM.

prettybird · 12/03/2019 20:15

No idea dreichuplands - but I did see a brief item this morning about the unavailability of "Black hole" 50p pieces. Seems somewhat appropriate Grin

PostNotInHaste · 12/03/2019 20:15

So Leadsom saying that if we ask for extension there may well be conditions that the House won’t like, is that referring to the Europeans Elections?

Holidayshopping · 12/03/2019 20:16

The BBC's Europe Editor Katya Adler says that the view in Brussels is that a no-deal Brexit is now even more likely.

Quote from the BBC news page. I don’t understand why though?!! Why is a no deal now more likely?

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 20:16

Thanks, susan that explains Morgan cosying up to people you wouldn't want to meet down a dark alley

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 20:17

holiday I just heard it on German TV too
I don't know who's right Confused

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 12/03/2019 20:19

I don’t understand why though?!! Why is a no deal now more likely?

Because the 29th of March is days away and the deal has been rejected so the odds of No Deal happening are automatically higher, no matter how much the House say they don't want it. No Deal will happen unless something else happens.