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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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CalamityJune · 12/03/2019 19:45

JRM is like a spectre

prettybird · 12/03/2019 19:45

Listening to the points of order, it is obvious that Cooper Boles Amendment is becoming even more necessary, so that Parliament can actually vote for something definitively something as opposed to a "in limbo" series of votes against things and, with only limited time left, indicative votes as to things that the House would "like", but with no means of forcing the Government to actually do what the majority in the House wants Hmm

dreichuplands · 12/03/2019 19:45

I am assuming there is a majority for no deal but that doesn't move us towards anything. What are the HoC going to agree on us moving forward to?

Loletta · 12/03/2019 19:46

Can someone tell me why the EU would unanimously agree to an A50 extension?

First of all they don't want No Deal either because it'd be disruptive for them and cause a financial loss (although a lot less than it would to us). At this stage of they don't allow for the extension then it's automatic no deal whatever the Hoc w
Votes tomorrow
Secondly I think the EU don't want to be held responsible for all the possible horrible consequences of No.Deal

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 19:46

Brexiters like Lilico would be very dangerous if No Deal were an option.

He seems to have gone full-on Bannon, wanting a revolution and to blow up everything

Like a rich man's Pete North

Dangerous if Leave lost, too

NoWordForFluffy · 12/03/2019 19:47

I'm just intrigued that TM raised the second ref idea. That's the first time she's mentioned it in this process.

Does anyone else think her face looked puffy? She must be feeling rotten. As much as I can't stand her politics, I do have a modicum of sympathy over having to work so hard when obviously unwell. Physical manifestation of her stress?

jasjas1973 · 12/03/2019 19:47

I think a second referendum with WA or Remain as the options just got more likely

...and why people like me and Tatiana have always wanted this WA voted down.

SalrycLuxx · 12/03/2019 19:48

Watched that with DD. She was fascinated.

dreichuplands · 12/03/2019 19:49

I'm not sorry this deal was voted down, I know that it is a higher risk strategy for a remainer but it is a risk I consider worth taking.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 19:50

Imo, the EU would give us a short extension, just to show they went the extra mile
but maybe with the condition of EP election prep

If MPs vote for a PV, then we need a longer extension though
We would need time to stop the successor of Cambridge Analytica nudging what looks like another narrow decision

If Leave win again, there will be no quick Rejoin
That's it for a generation

littlebillie · 12/03/2019 19:50

We are crashing out - are we all ready for this Shock

SalrycLuxx · 12/03/2019 19:50

Think I’ll go double check my larder. And drug pile.

prettybird · 12/03/2019 19:50

dreichuplands - cross posted Wink - but great minds think alike Grin

BTW: love your posting name. Dreich is another of my favourite Scottish words Smile My dad reminded me on Sunday night of one of his favourites: scunnered Grin

Very appropriate re Brexit: totally scunnered with the whole process Angry

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 19:51

I thought they always were.

Now they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. They are more dangerous than before.

Up to now they would always support May in a no confidence.

Now they may not, particularly with the left split. They might see it as an opportunity for a Tory majority.

Which might raise some very difficult questions for Labour at some point.

OP posts:
Songsofexperience · 12/03/2019 19:51

I'd rather face the brextremists from within the EU than be ruled by them.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 19:51

What's dreich, please ?

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 12/03/2019 19:52

dreich - dreary and overcast.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 19:53

Thank you, fiddle Smile

prettybird · 12/03/2019 19:53

dreich usually refers to weather, but sometimes also landscapes. It means grey, drizzly and generally "meh"

WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 12/03/2019 19:55

pretty I like shoogly

We are truly on a shoogly peg ....

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 19:55

and pretty definitely dreich outlook

Gawd, if there's a ref, we have at least 6 months of divisions being whipped up further
Whoever wins, inherits the ashes - like the cricket trophy

dreichuplands · 12/03/2019 19:56

I like havering. My dad thought I was having a joke when I told him it was a place with a town council!

NoWordForFluffy · 12/03/2019 19:58

I miss working in Glasgow with all the lovely accents and descriptive vocabulary!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 19:58

I know havering & scunner, but Scooby has baffled me with shoogly

Is this the Scots English or whatever that the DUP were demanding as "their" official language in NI ?

prettybird · 12/03/2019 20:00

I do like shoogly too. Smile

For example: Grayling's jaiket should be on a shoogly peg. Shock

Aka, he should be getting his jotters soon. Wink

Aka, he should be fired Grin

But he won't be Angry