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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

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Thread gallery
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WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 12/03/2019 19:33

lonely our cat did that many times. I think there is a spray you can get on Amazon which helps with the smell. Gin has been drunk and may be clouding my memory but I think it was called Pee Off???? Or similar.

Hopefully your cat is more civilised - but once ours started he just kept doing it. We don’t let him in the bedroom now.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 12/03/2019 19:33

Play it again Sam Wink

ContinuityError · 12/03/2019 19:34

Plaice exiting?

Loletta · 12/03/2019 19:34

What she said in the last part of the speech: Hoc will need to decide the reason for the extension. She mentioned Revoke, Second referendum or a different deal.
I see this as very positive but maybe it's wishful thinking.

Butterymuffin · 12/03/2019 19:34

Graham Brady being interviewed on Sky now. Voted for deal apparently.

TatianaLarina · 12/03/2019 19:35

Prof Brigid Laffan was saying earlier on RTE she reckons the EU would be prepared to offer an 8 week extension. But if the UK needed another one in May, the EU would insist on a long one - no question of a series of short extensions.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 19:35

Now the HoC need to actively choose something

I hope they don't just vote against all the available choices

NoWordForFluffy · 12/03/2019 19:37

Yes, Loletta, the fact that she's even raising revoke or 2nd ref made me feel slightly optimistic. As did the cheers for the 2nd ref.

Butterymuffin · 12/03/2019 19:37

She almost paused to allow for people to shout out support for the second referendum option... others then shouted out 'no' but the PV crowd got in first.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 19:38

Ian Dunt@iandunt
Bercow confirms cut off time of 10:30am tomorrow for amendments

Lots of action tonight to be had then..

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bellinisurge · 12/03/2019 19:38

I think a second referendum with WA or Remain as the options just got more likely.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 19:39

I expect an indicative vote style series of amendments to be tabled.

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BiglyBadgers · 12/03/2019 19:39

So May seems to be putting PV on the table. Interesting. It does seem like the only way of moving forward that isn't immediate no deal. Parliament seems incapable of making a decision so handing it back to the people is the only way we will break the deadlock. I now see the two options on the table as no deal or PV.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 19:39

We might need a 2nd extension after the 1st

Would the EU, as a condition for agreeing an extension, require the UK to organise MEP election in advance for 23 - 26 May ?

So they don't end up having to consider a 2nd extension starting with the UK having no MEPs

Waterfred · 12/03/2019 19:39

Can someone tell me why the EU would unanimously agree to an A50 extension?

Butterymuffin · 12/03/2019 19:39

Oooh Grieve now. Saying house will decisively reject no deal tomorrow.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 19:40

John Rentoul @johnrentoul
Only 3 Labour MPs voted with the govt: Kevin Barron, Caroline Flint (new) and John Mann

Frank Field and Ian Austin, ex-Lab, also voted with the govt, along with Stephen Lloyd, ex-Lib Dem and Sylvia Hermon, ind unionist

75 Tories voted against, down 43 from 118 last time

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BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 19:42

PV question would be critical

Leave voters apparently now would accept May*s deal, but would they prefer No Deal to that ?

i.e. a PV with the favourite option for each side, Leave & Remain

BiglyBadgers · 12/03/2019 19:42

I think the EU will insist we effectively act as if we are part of the EU during any extension, which will mean preparing for MEP elections and having them unless we have left. To do otherwise is just too big a risk for them when we are so chaotic.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 19:42

Warning to all PV and Remain supporters.

The ERG just became kamakaze pilots hell bent on blowing everything up.

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HazardGhost · 12/03/2019 19:43

Switched over when JC was talking because he's so useless.

I'm crossing everything that mps say no to no deal... any indications of how that'll go yet?

BiglyBadgers · 12/03/2019 19:43

The ERG just became kamakaze pilots hell bent on blowing everything up.

I thought they always were.

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 12/03/2019 19:44

Even if the House rejects No Deal the clock will keep ticking won't it? No Deal will still be the default.

NoWordForFluffy · 12/03/2019 19:44

Urgghh. I can't watch JRM. 🤢🤢

HazardGhost · 12/03/2019 19:44

If ERG go hell crazy that gives other MPs a common enemy and generate cross party support to work against them.

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