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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

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Thread gallery
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SingingBabooshkaBadly · 12/03/2019 19:06

Lonely. Oh dear...
not sure about memory foam but a liberal dowsing of bicarbonate of soda left to absorb liquid and odours and then hoovered up usually works wonders.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 12/03/2019 19:07

I'm a bit concerned about some of your alcohol stocks. Some serious shopping may be needed this weekend.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 12/03/2019 19:08

WTF - BBC commentator just said a small child being in the chamber is a sign of how different things have become in different weeks? OK, just ignore the rest of it Hmm

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 12/03/2019 19:08

I have no alcohol. Might need to rectify that situation once the result is in

Butterymuffin · 12/03/2019 19:08

Watching Sky rather than the Brexity BBC News, but the downside is their ticker counting down hours, minutes and days to Brexit at the top. Truly scary.

NoWordForFluffy · 12/03/2019 19:09

How does TM plan to 'announce' an extension? She can announce she's asking for one, but not an actual extension.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 12/03/2019 19:09

Parliament tv commentary said the same thing about the child. Sounds more like the commentary at a royal wedding.

icannotremember · 12/03/2019 19:09

Ds1 watching the debate with me. "Mum why are they such dicks?" Don't even have the heart to tell him off for bad language tbh. Settled for saying "well, not all of them" which is hardly a ringing endorsement of the house.

I have Zubrowka. Forgot the apple juice so necking it neat.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 12/03/2019 19:09

Thanks Babooshka, have loo rolled the wet but it's the smell...off to get bicarb. Why NOW?!

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 19:09

Ian Dunt@iandunt
No amendments. Straight vote on her deal. My sense is that got will consider any negative majority in double-digits a victory. Gives her hope she can get it through on a third heave.

But my guesstimate is about 150 negative majority.

Then big question is will May stand up right after and maybe announce an extension of Article 50. This would give two advantages.

1) She takes control of what is near-inevitable and stops parliament wrestling it from her.

2) She can try to prevent European elections, get through to mid-May, hold another vote where no more A50 extensions possible, and have a shot at winning it.

Downside: If she leads on extension, rather than being forced into it, the ERG lot will hate more than they do already.

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tobee · 12/03/2019 19:09

I didn't there was anything new about small children being in the house.

InterchangeableEmma · 12/03/2019 19:09

pmkGin

@LonelyandTiredandLow I've had That happen it's a pita to clean but doable. you need to pour a solution of biological washing powder/liquid right through the mattress (into a big bowl). Then rinse well in the same way. Pile towels under and on top of the wet part of the mattress and jump up and down to squish as much moisture out as you can.

Sostenueto · 12/03/2019 19:10

Cleo the dog overcome with excitement...

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 12/03/2019 19:10

Cats know stuff.
This suddenly explains why our fur all is suddenly scratching the furniture when she hasn't before

Butterymuffin · 12/03/2019 19:10

Sky: DD has voted for the deal, JRM against (the latter hardly surprising)

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 12/03/2019 19:10

Too many suddenly. The first should have been certainly Blush

prettybird · 12/03/2019 19:11

GrinGrinGrin Icannotremember

How old is your very astute ds1?

Sostenueto · 12/03/2019 19:11

The HoC not exactly the place for small children.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 19:11

How does TM plan to 'announce' an extension? She can announce she's asking for one, but not an actual extension.

Was it agreed in principle in Strasbourg if this happened? If it was then May perhaps could 'announce' rather than 'request'. Though it technically would be a request. But it would avoid the humiliation of being seen to have to request.

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Sostenueto · 12/03/2019 19:12

Oh sorry HoC full of small childrenGrin

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 12/03/2019 19:12

Badkitten. I have a feeling my alcohol supply will need replenishing after this evening.

DH and I are consuming a lot of gin and crisps. I think that may constitute dinner tonight. Mug of tea and a twix for pudding maybe.

Butterymuffin · 12/03/2019 19:12

Sky showing an MP's tweet Hannah BarDell saying no lobby is rammed, big defeat coming

Belindabelle · 12/03/2019 19:12

I keep breaking into my Brexit alcohol stockpile. My fil used to make his own whisky. I might see if the Still is lurking in the shed and get it back into production.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 19:13

Krishnan Guru-Murthy @ krishgm
Looks like big defeat for the govt - Tory MP Charles Walker just came from the voting lobby saying its bad and we now in general election territory

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67chevvyimpala · 12/03/2019 19:14

I keep telling dh to get more alcohol in.

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