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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

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1tisILeClerc · 12/03/2019 17:56

A PV isn't on the EU's list, it is a means for the UK to come to a better defined decision.
A soft Brexit is covered by voting for the WA (and having competent negotiators immediately after it is signed).

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 17:58

Arj Singh @singharj
“A no-deal Brexit isn’t going to happen”, current speaker in ERG meeting says. Choice is between this deal and no Brexit

“A no-deal Brexit isn’t going to happen”, current speaker in ERG meeting says. Choice is between this deal and no Brexit

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HazardGhost · 12/03/2019 17:59

I need popcorn....

Littlespaces · 12/03/2019 18:00

and having competent negotiators immediately after it is signed

Oh dear. So far they haven't been able to negotiate their way out of a paper bag.

Belindabelle · 12/03/2019 18:01

I need a stiff gin

Grinchly · 12/03/2019 18:01

Speakers in commons saying they won't allow no deal. Still.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 18:02

Matt Foster @mattlpfoster
Uhoh. Brexiteer Simon Clarke emerges from ERG meeting saying “clear majority” resolved to vote against May’s deal tonight. Meetings still ongoing

Kate McCann @ KateEMcCann
Simon Clarke MP has just left the ERG meeting, tells hacks they’ve decided to vote AGAINST. Adds some will back May or abstain but the majority will vote the deal down later.

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WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 12/03/2019 18:02

PMK
On a train. With gin.

67chevvyimpala · 12/03/2019 18:05

I want gin

OhYouBadBadKitten · 12/03/2019 18:08

67 you need whiskey, that'll sort out your poorliness.

I need a beer.

TiddleTaddleTat · 12/03/2019 18:08

I've been lurking, and the only useful contribution I have is:
I'm drinking wine

Snowy111 · 12/03/2019 18:09

I’m a passionate remainer but I think we have to go with TM deal.

Otherwise tories need to fall on sword, they will never be forgiven by leavers if we don’t leave, it would be remembered for decades , even though it’s a shite referendum decision.

If we revoke A50, Tories will fall on sword and create a new better party - it’s not beyond the realms of possibility

And I’m not a Tory voter - not sure who I’d vote for tbh they’re all scary

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 18:09

Jessica elgot@jessicaelgot
One Tory MP in the ERG meeting giving impassioned speech about the impossibility of no deal. Says it has no supporters in the government, in Parliament, or the speaker of the House of Commons “apart from the people in this room.”

Jessica elgot has now said she was told this was Greg Hands

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Holidayshopping · 12/03/2019 18:10

Has it been decided which amendments are being voted on tonight or is it just a WA: yes/no vote?

dreichuplands · 12/03/2019 18:10

Only lunch time in the us, I am feeling under resourced with my tea.
It has been a long road to here.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 18:11

I need a full on drinking session of the entire drinks cabinet.

There's enough in there to last 12 months of no deal.

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67chevvyimpala · 12/03/2019 18:11

I dont have whiskey either

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 18:13

Michel Barnier @MichelBarnier
Listening to debate in @HouseofCommons : there seems to be a dangerous illusion that the UK can benefit from a transition in the absence of the WA.
Let me be clear: the only legal basis for a transition is the WA. No withdrawal agreement means no transition.

Tweet from 4 minutes ago.

This is insane that he needs to say this!

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WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 12/03/2019 18:13

Gin for you 67chevvyimpala

Raising a bit gin toast to all Westminstenders.

Good thing my stop is where this train terminates as I may be less than sober soon.

67chevvyimpala · 12/03/2019 18:14

I might take some night nurse tonight.

That usually knocks me out

WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 12/03/2019 18:14

Big gin toast. Not bit gin toast Blush

SusanWalker · 12/03/2019 18:14

For some reason I really fancy some port.

67chevvyimpala · 12/03/2019 18:15

Oh! We have port!

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 18:15

Beth Rigby@bethrigby
Just ran into an ERG-er. Said the Brexiteers split but thinks the majority will vote against. Said only 2 spoke up for her desk with 20 saying they’ll vote against. He predicts May will lose by 70-100. Our @skynews tally higher...

Journalist sweepstake has an average of 85.

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Loletta · 12/03/2019 18:15

Defeat estimated at higher than.70-100 by Beth Rugby
Just ran into an ERG-er. Said the Brexiteers split but thinks the majority will vote against. Said only 2 spoke up for her desk with 20 saying they’ll vote against. He predicts May will lose by 70-100. Our @skynews tally higher...

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