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Brexit

Westminstenders: Are we nearly there yet?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 10:01

May went to Strasbourg to improve the WA. She claimed to have won 'legally binding' assurances which mean we can't be trapped in the backstop.

Despite the claim of 'legally binding' it seems that this isn't true. It reduces the risk of being trapped but does not eliminate it.

The whole thing is just political theatre designed to give Brexiteers the opportunity to climb down and support May's deal. Whether that will happen remains to seen.

The right wing press has largely been supportive of May this morning but the ERG were scathing last night which doesn't bode well.

For May to pass the deal she needs the DUP to effectively trigger dominoes of support. If she fails to get that it's highly unlikely it will pass.

In order to pass the deal May needs an extra 116 votes compared to last time. This breaks down to roughly 10 DUP, 65 of the ERG, 4 Independents (Field/Hermon /Hopkins/Austin) and 40 Labour.

The Labour MPs won't go for it unless the numbers look tight and the DUP are on board.

We should get a feel for how things are going as the day goes on. I expect more negative comments on it to be expressed as the day goes on.

We might yet see some amendments and curveball thrown into the mix too. However none of those tabled so far this morning look likely to pass (Labour are yet to table anything)

The Cabinet meets at 9.30am. This will give us an idea of how it's played out there.

At 11.15am Barclay faces the Brexit select committee so some more scrutiny there.

The crucial moment is early afternoon before as May opens the debate on the Meaningful Vote. It is expected there will be an Urgent Question tabled to Cox the Attorney General to assess whether his legal advice that the backstop could be a trap, has changed. This is where thing will come into focus and we will get a good idea of whether the deal will pass or how heavy the defeat will be. How heavy it is, is important.

Word is that Cox said no to the validity of May’s 'legally binding assurances' last night and has been pretty much been sent away to 'think about it with a team of lawyers'. Cox has replied this is "Bollocks". But you do have to wonder if this is what May did in the Home Office with her ridiculous court cases and the A50 case. None of which went well for her in court in the end. However Cox did tell The Mail yesterday he would only change his legal advice if the risk of being trapped was 'eliminated' not merely reduced.

If its going badly a No10 damage limitation exercise will be in full swing by about 4pm.

If The Withdrawal Agreement fails by a small amount May might be able to try again. If it fails by a lot we really are into political chaos. May's position might be untenable if the Cabinet withdraw their support. If May stays that's not necessarily going to stave off even greater crisis.

Theresa May looks likely to go for an extension until 23rd May. The EU have more or less agreed to this. But this might be too short to get an alternative plan on the table. And May would be unlikely to be the person to do this anyway as it requires a huge uturn. The 23rd May date is crucial - if the UK doesn't make contingency plans to take part in European Elections its a cliff edge. A deadline of 23rd May is also too short for another referendum.

The only way we get a 2nd ref is to take the option of a longer extension which requires us to take part in European elections, and this is politically unpalatable to many Tories as it endangers Brexit completely.

This is what ERGers need to weigh up. Are they really committed to no deal. If they are not then the WA is perhaps the only way to stop no deal AND the possibility of no brexit.

However the chances of the legislation for European elections and a long extension getting through the Commons looks extremely unlikely too. But who knows where we will be come the end of April.

Thus if the WA fails then the chances of No Deal sky rocket, even if no deal is blocked by Parliament tomorrow. Unless those same MPs are prepared to vote for EP elections further down the line if need be. This might be the only way to truly block no deal. Has this dawned on Tory moderates? And that's what remain moderates and Labour MPs need to weigh up. I don't think the penny has dropped with many. Yet.

The trouble is that the WA problem is really with hardline ERG Tories not moderates nor Labour anyway.

Voting starts at 7pm.

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SparklySneakers · 12/03/2019 17:22

I'd laugh if the noes are higher than last time. But I fear no deal. I won't feel less anxious until something is at least less in the air. Thursday at the latest. Even if I know they request an extension then there's more time. This is from a personal POV that o have more time to prep. I am not hopeful of anything positive though. I want her to be defeated but the threat of no deal looms large.

How long would the effects of no deal last in the main before things start to settle down again assuming deals are successfully made?

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 12/03/2019 17:22

Another Lilico tweet in his rant to Philip Collins... Looks like the Lords and the Windsors are for it too!

@andrew_lilico
Replying to @andrew_lilico @PCollinsTimes and 2 others
And merely breaking the political parties won't be enough for the True Leavers. The Civil Service, Lords & probably Monarchy will have to go, now, as well. They've all failed, utterly.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 12/03/2019 17:23

NoWord yes I thought that pretty much whatever we do we've run out of time for legislation for any scenario...I just thought that was part of No Dealing, but then wondered if TM might ask for a short extension to get more through before we No Deal (no way short time frame would come up with anything new and Junker almost hinted it would be an extension next).

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 17:24

And I was laughed at for suggesting Brexit could lead to a Republic ....

EweSurname · 12/03/2019 17:24

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
Andrea Jenkyns has left the meeting, confirming she’s voting against the Brexit deal tonight.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 12/03/2019 17:25

BJ arguing for No Deal as the better option. Angry

lonelyplanetmum · 12/03/2019 17:26

One thing which I've never been clear on: given the sheer bloody divisiveness (sp?) of the referendum and the time since, why does no one seem interested in finding any way of bringing Remainers alongside, however difficult that might be?

This has always mystified me too.The TIggers and the LibDems are interested in the 16m but no one else. I guess it's because despite everything the polls say the Tories are still ahead so there's no incentive.

In my most optimistic moments I think maybe it's because there's some well concealed intention to deliver what we'd like in the long term. So that there's no need to placate now as ultimately we could be listened to. But there really is no evidence to substantiate that optimistic theory.

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 17:27

Junker almost hinted

Don't read into statements from the EU what you want to hear. Anything they have to state, they will state clearly - and have done so.

The strongest tie the EU has is transparency - at all levels. That's why the EU27 have taken a back seat. They are being briefed at all times.

prettybird · 12/03/2019 17:28

New insults:

• the Codpiece: someone who emits a lot of hot air and bluster in an unsuccessful attempt to cover up his embarrassment that he really doesn't have a principled or valid argument Wink
• the Bawbagger: a variant of the above. A supposed expert blustering that his opinion actually matters Grin

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 17:28

One thing which I've never been clear on: given the sheer bloody divisiveness (sp?) of the referendum and the time since, why does no one seem interested in finding any way of bringing Remainers alongside, however difficult that might be?

Perpetual division is a powerful tool for those will ill - or self - intent.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 12/03/2019 17:30

lonely makes it easier to power grab if they run along with the people who want to rip it up and start again. The rest of us not being consulted is deliberate - we might confuse things and make people think. Better to put us all into 'fearmongering' camp then take the goodies before anyone notices them with their fingers in the till.

They can come back and hoover us up later with platitudes about how they were making the best of a bad situation, imagine if Labour had been in charge, there would have been civil unrest etc etc.

HazardGhost · 12/03/2019 17:30

Just placed a £10.51 bet on the deal not being approved....if i win the returns are 10.89. I'm gonna spend those extra pennies wisely. The odds are at 1/28.

Songsofexperience · 12/03/2019 17:30

And I was laughed at for suggesting Brexit could lead to a Republic ....

I read somewhere that some ERG types like to compare themselves to revolutionaries from the French Revolution...

1tisILeClerc · 12/03/2019 17:32

Someone else having a bad day!
www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/12/saudi-plane-turns-around-mother-forgets-baby-airport

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 17:34

I read somewhere that some ERG types like to compare themselves to revolutionaries from the French Revolution..

If that means JRM as Robespierre, and BoJo as Danton, I'd be happy ...

MadAboutWands · 12/03/2019 17:34

PMK

HazardGhost · 12/03/2019 17:34

What the hell is wrong with us... The continuous divided nation of the United kingdom ladies and gentlemen...

A Sky News poll finds 41% of those surveyed want their MPs to vote for the deal on Tuesday, while 43% said they should not.

news.sky.com/story/brexit-breakthrough-most-britons-see-no-improvement-in-mays-latest-plan-poll-finds-11663073

1tisILeClerc · 12/03/2019 17:36

Most of the pictures of the HoC seem to show a significant number of MPs messing with their phones. I am not convinced many actually know what is being voted on or what the significance of No deal versus WA are.

DGRossetti · 12/03/2019 17:38

Most of the pictures of the HoC seem to show a significant number of MPs messing with their phones. I am not convinced many actually know what is being voted on or what the significance of No deal versus WA are.

Will David Davies vote the wrong way ?

Again.

1tisILeClerc · 12/03/2019 17:40

{A Sky News poll finds 41% of those surveyed want their MPs to vote for the deal on Tuesday, while 43% said they should not.}

Granted these are polls not real voting but the figures really do suggest that leaving is the 'right' thing to do as the UK are either mightily confused or have been brainwashed (cue DGR comment!).

QueenOfThorns · 12/03/2019 17:40

bellini do we have the same MP? I wrote weeks ago saying pretty much what you did and he didn’t mention Corbyn, but said that he won’t vote for it because ’I believe the Prime Minister's approach has resulted in a deeply flawed Brexit deal that will not protect jobs, workplace rights or environmental standards, and will not ensure frictionless trade for British businesses.’

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 12/03/2019 17:43

Nowordforfluffy. Thanks. I knew it wasn’t happening today but was concerned that maybe the idea of it happening at all had evaporated. Haven’t seen it mentioned at all for a while.

HazardGhost · 12/03/2019 17:44

leclerc 43% might want revoke, PV, soft brexit, etc

I'm in the 43% and my brain is filthy...

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 17:50

Sebastian Payne @SebastianePayne
The ERG are meeting to decide whether to back the prime minister tonight. The “Cash council” is presenting its legal opinion as we speak. The room is so packed it’s members can scarcely make it in or out.

David Davis has just popped out of the ERG meeting to take a phone call, only to realise there’s a big gaggle of journalists waiting for him. “I better call you back in a couple of hours.”

One MP has left, describing the mood in the ERG meeting as “realistic” but then asked “what is reality?”

We’ve gone full meta.

Another ERG MP says there were “fairly robust views generally” 🤷‍♂️ It’s been a long, long day.

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RedToothBrush · 12/03/2019 17:56

Jessica elgot@jessicaelgot
One Tory MP in the ERG meeting giving impassioned speech about the impossibility of no deal. Says it has no supporters in the government, in Parliament, or the speaker of the House of Commons “apart from the people in this room.”

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