Westminstenders: Here we go again

[RedToothBrush]

Vote 12th March: Meaningful Vote on the Withdrawal Agreement

Vote 13th March: If WA fails, vote on No Deal

Vote 14th March: If WA fails, vote on A50 extension

Not much more to add at this stage that's not repeating what's been said before.

BigChoc I think if just 60% people were preparing and made conscious decisions to act rationally (not travel, keep food stocks at home, etc) you would be right. What we have is a population ignoring any vague hints at disruption as Project Fear who will likely panic buy, clog up motorways, insist on turning up at the airport for their holidays and get irate when they realise insurance won't cover their tickets...it's not going to be pretty.

The mock up (based on this:
fineartamerica.com/featured/the-assassination-of-julius-caesar-tancredi-scarpelli.html)
of Caesar’s assassination in the DM article is great with TM in a quite stylish toga and a pissed off expression, and Boris as “honourable man” Brutus.
Sorry for the clumsy link.

@QueenOfThorns , I didn't plant carrots until about June if I remember rightly. I planted them outside in a pot and had some for Christmas dinner. They were ready before but I wanted to store them and in the ground seemed like the best option. I didn't plant many and had never done them before. Real Seed Company ones. They were yum.

lonelyMy 30% short term problems is based on what the EU & UK authorities have done; not on individual prepping

People certainly should prep, for that 30% chance

However, I would always express this as a possibility, not a certainty or even probability

The Project Fear narrative still works so well, because Remainers like Osbourne predicted immediate disaster if Leave won,
without considering that public servants like Carney could smooth out the immediate problems
and that the effects spread out over 2-3 years have not been very noticeable for most people.

That lost huge credibility, so some Leavers who might have listened now, refuse.

We are talking about risks, not certainties, of some things
Others are certainties, e.g. losing all the trade deals and hence exports suffering

So we should state what is certain to happen and give the probable consequences & risks for the other things

29th March "Grow your own" newcomers welcome here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/gardening/3504562-29th-March-Grow-your-own-newcomers-welcome-here

Any veg growers (including thinking about it) , try this thread.
And plant perpetual spinach. Delicious salad leaves. Indestructible plants (for me, anyway). Whizz bits into a soup. Serve with bacon. Greens + bacon is heavenly.

The really big changes will occur over about 5 years

• the economic damage which will probably be much worse and long-lasting than the 2008 financial crash

A young generation that will suffer and never regain the lost years

Some areas & salaries still haven't recovered from the financial crash , but most people didn't miss out on essentials;
just the poorest & most vulnerable - and most people didn't notice or care about them, or they'd vote differently.

Thatcher thrived despite destoying vast swathes of UK manufacturing, adding on 2 million unemployed, dreadful hospital queues ...
because "I'm all right, Jack"

If I had DC, my prepping would be on how to get them out of the country at some stage, for better opportunities

Thatcher thrived despite destoying vast swathes of UK manufacturing, adding on 2 million unemployed, dreadful hospital queues ...
because "I'm all right, Jack"

.... and then Osborne came along with his austerity. But isn't that why so many people voted Leave? To try to make themselves heard? And they had been promised goodies would come of it.

Don't forget that an awful lot of people must have voted for Thatcher, but 11 years later you couldn't find anyone who admitted to it.

I need to order some seeds this week.

Garden we will have, will be small but actually use able for veg if we need to. It's just not viable where we currently are.

but it took several years for people to get really pissed
and then Leave persuaded to blame the EU, not austerity & the Tories

Also, Thatcher is still a hero among tories and those who voted for her, obviously not among the left or centre

• in fact political analysts say that her fall is when the Tory party changed from basically pro to anti: it was the revenge of her supporters against those who toppled her, who were ppro-Europeans

Don't forget that an awful lot of people must have voted for Thatcher, but 11 years later you couldn't find anyone who admitted to it.

I was 18 in 1997. Don't blame me.

If that 30% change comes up, then I expect political change, probably civil disorder

However, if it's the 70%, then I expect a long steep decline, but basically with a whimper, not a bang

bigchoc
Yep. That's what getting my kids EU passport was all about for me.
DH was not happy.
In laws really not happy :)

We shall certainly be planting. Dh was going to start today but its snowing here ❄

Sadly, my 2 kids are still ill with an awful flu like virus. Ds1 is asthmatic so off the drs with him tomorrow as his peak flow is poor.

So many viruses around atm - and they will still be here in 3 weeks time...it won't be pretty if parents cant get basic meds for their ill kids and people like my mum could die.

But...unicorns.

You may be amazed how well "stiff upper lip, they are punishing us" works,
rather than accepting that they made a serious mistake voting for Brexit

Those young people with the luck and intelligence to be able to get visas and good jobs abroad will leave...this brain drain will mean the political situation in the UK will continue to deteriorate as the best and brightest voters will be gone.

I expect the RAF and hired private air freight to bring in meds if the ports become logjammed

However, my 30% risk is because of the need to install fridges, climate controlled chambers etc
... and that Grayling is in charge of organising it

BigChoc
I am currently weighing up emigrating. What worries me is that if Brexit can happen here, then surely similar psyops can happen anywhere? I may just be swapping one bad situation for another, however my feeling is that this one has happened already thus no point worrying about one elsewhere that might.

I'm petrified deep down as it would use all of our savings and be a big leap into a new world (her schooling, me in a new area academically as well as physically, no long term friends/support there, leaving my dad behind and probably pets, packing everything up and renting out the house or selling it at a time the market is stagnant) . I'm feeling inertia when I think too deeply about it. It's times like this when I wish I had a partner to share the load .

Yes, once a significant % of the brightest young people leave,
even though they may be a v low % of the population,

this can significantly damage the country, especially in the medium to longterm

Flower I think the govt actually may want the brightest to leave - it sounds counter intuitive but look at how they are pandering to the "will of the people" and ignoring the other half of the country who made measured decisions? It's the opposite of Germany, where a pp said they don't want to upset the prepared businesses because they are sensible.

Tories IMO like a dumb audience who they can bamboozle with press articles on keeping people out/scapegoating. Unfortunately for them the majority will be on welfare or old and needing pensions and social/health care, which is costly. But then, they've shown they can just ignore it and blame immigrants which tends to work.

Pmk

lonely just my personal opinion:

As always, if there are real problems, then the poor and vulnerable will suffer by far the most
Those with a decent income and home can weather many things - providing they don't become unemployed
As always, having a lot of savings gives you the previous gift of time to consider and plan

Public sector jobs that are essential would remain safe and are good to hang onto if the pay is OK.
A few fields actually thrive during disaster - those that profit from dealing with it
Anything that caters to the top 5% income level would probably be ok too

So any of those and especially with your own home that you like - then I wouldn't budge.

Jobs that depend on ordinary people having discretionary income for luxuries look very iffy
So do jobs in firms depending on exports ... or JIT imports

If the kids are about 7 or under, their education would be fine if they move to a country with a different language
Older than this, I'd just move to an English-speaking one,

or if that's not possible, give them the best school support in the UK you can and consider uni abroad,
or supporting them after uni to get their first job abroad.

The reason I say 7 and under for kids with mother tongue English is that they aren't forced to the same extent to learn the host country language
because they often don't have total immersion
Many people they come into contact with will be able to speak at least some English, too.

I know older kids come to the UK and soon thrive, but many would know at least some English from gaming & Tinternet
and few people outside their family would speak their mother tongue to them.

My ds is 18 and in 1st year doing a Politics and International Relations degree. He'll graduate in 2022 with an MA in PIR (Scottish degree therefore 4 years).

He's bright, focussed and determined.

He'll be off abroad - unless Scotland has achieved (or looks like it will achieve) its independence.....he wants to work for the Scottish diplomatic service and ultimately the UN

Thank you BigChoc - it is an English speaking one which makes things a little easier, although I would dearly love her to learn another language. They had about 3 lessons of French last year and that was it . She is 7 so I feel a move now is better than waiting to see.

For me I've been stagnating a bit since I graduated in my new area. I foolishly thought jobs in the field would be plentiful in my area but the cuts have meant the main jobs are in London, which would mean barely seeing dd and having breakfast/after school club daily and then all of the household work on top. I know many people would do that for a career but I've always felt strongly that as dd only has me I need to be quite present in her life. That's partly why leaving my dad (only other family) will be so hard.

However I do feel that opportunities over there are better for kids, there is a better standard of living and similar educational attainments to UK from what I can see. I will be continuing my education, which is a risky move but will tailor my job prospects considerably. If it doesn't work out it is 2 years abroad and potentially another move back for the last year of her primary.

Apologies for derailing the thread