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Brexit

Westminstenders: Here we go again

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/03/2019 18:39

Vote 12th March: Meaningful Vote on the Withdrawal Agreement

Vote 13th March: If WA fails, vote on No Deal

Vote 14th March: If WA fails, vote on A50 extension

Not much more to add at this stage that's not repeating what's been said before.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
30
FinallyHere · 11/03/2019 17:53

Over the last 48 hours, No10 has discussed with MPs the idea of making a unilateral statement declaring that it believes it is released from its obligation to stay in the backstop for more than a set number of years

What about the IK government's obligations from the Good Friday (Belfast) Agreement? The backstop is only required to make sure they are kept to the terms of that pre-existing agreement.

Ditching one international agreement, in order to go chasing after other, new agreements....

that's going to end well, isn't it ?

TatianaLarina · 11/03/2019 17:53

Apols if this has been covered:

Barnier, in turn, was said to be indignant about Cox’s interview in the Daily Mail in which he said that he would find a way to allow the UK to unilaterally quit the backstop.

The attorney general’s claim that the UK could trigger an arbitration mechanism “on the very first day we entered” the backstop” was read out to EU ambassadors by an incredulous Barnier.

This proves the point that the Tories do not and never have intended to stick to the WA they are only interested signing it now to get on with the next phase, and finding a way out. It’s actively dangerous.

pointythings · 11/03/2019 17:55

Well, the UK does clearly have a crack team of negotiators. It explains everything about the total lack of success in the negotiations so far - being on crack does nothing for your rational faculties.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2019 17:56

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0310/1035486-brexit-ireland/

[Irish] Minister for Justice Charlie Flanagan, said the British parliament seems to be reneging on the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement agreed with the European Union.

< no "seems" about it , mate
Big warning to other countries contemplating future trade negotiations with the UK >

TatianaLarina · 11/03/2019 17:57

link ^^

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2019 17:57

It's not very clever to announce beforehand that you are going to renege on day 1 Confused

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2019 17:59

That "very important offer" at the weekend that Merkel spoke about is what Cox told May to refuse

NoWordForFluffy · 11/03/2019 18:03

Which sums up our negotiating abilities really, BCF. Sigh.

It's so painful being governed by idiots.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2019 18:04

From that Guardain link:

The attorney general’s claim that the UK could trigger an arbitration mechanism “on the very first day we entered” the backstop was read out to EU ambassadors by an incredulous Barnier.

< yes, the UK govt shenanigan's have made us the official CF of the entire continent
People are looking on in shock & disgust.
I had a conversation with an indignant neighbour just this afternoon - it's reached the public here >

1tisILeClerc · 11/03/2019 18:06

Is Mrs May REALLY going to Strasbourg, or is she actually heading to Switzerland/Timbuktu and through the miracles of technology (split screen, it's been done before) appear to be in Strasbourg where she announces she is quitting and 'thanks for all the fish'.
Oh, and the UK is being demolished for an intergalactic bypass.

pollyannaperspective · 11/03/2019 18:08

I heard a brief extract of the reading Teresa May gave at today's Commonwealth Day Service. The full reading is below. Not sure who decided on the readings, or who was to deliver this one!

1 Corinthians 12:14-26 New International Version (NIV)

14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.

15 Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2019 18:09

DEFRA is now advertising for:
+Animal Health Officer Border Inspection Post

  • Plant Health and Seeds Inspector

Isn't it a bit late for that ?Confused

(interviews, recruit, starting date, training ..... )

Well, if anyone is interested ....

www.defrajobs.co.uk/roles/analyst/

Motheroffourdragons · 11/03/2019 18:12

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

bellinisurge · 11/03/2019 18:22

My dh has just got home and when I said TM has gone to Strasbourg, he finished the sentence with "because she can claim French citizenship?".

NoWordForFluffy · 11/03/2019 18:25

I don't think anyone - including TM - knows what's going on Mother.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 11/03/2019 18:25

Re DEFRA
Just looked up offices in Kent and currently, covering the port of Dover we as a nation have:
^
At present Kent & Essex IFCA employs 14 full time staff, 1 part-time staff member and a part time financial advisor. In addition to this the Authority also contributes to the services of the Clerk, Chairman and Vice-chairman. The structure and key roles of each member of staff are laid out in Dig.4. One of the areas that KEIFCA are trying to develop in the organisation as we move into our sixth year is the ability of each officer to take on each other’s roles, and expand their knowledge base so that each officer is competent in a wide spectrum of new roles and duties. This approach will give KEIFCA a huge amount of flexibility in being able to deliver all KEIFCA’s new duties and react to events.

Kent & Essex IFCA currently have a vacancy for a Lead Compliance Officer^

LonelyandTiredandLow · 11/03/2019 18:27

Sorry my point was that we have just 14 people covering an area including Dover where regulations for every product imported and exported in the world will likely need to be checked in 18 days...
Am I reading that wrong? Shock

RedToothBrush · 11/03/2019 18:30

BBC 6 o'clock news reported May has gone to Strasbourg and they expect an update on what's happened in 'around 3 hours'. So about 9pm.

Henry Newman @ henrynewman
Attention now swirling on language from January's Tusk/Juncker letter

This was dismissed by critics at time as not worth paper it was written on

That was wrong

But it’s worth looking more closely at it as EU seems to be about to make its commitments more binding

Thread👇

1/

An exchange of letters can have treaty status in international law. Examples include the 1940 & 1941 Land-Lease Agreements between the UK and US.

Even if the exchange of letters had a boosted legal status, but fell short of a full treaty, it would not be legally meaningless

2/

The exchange of letters already included several important commitments

First - and perhaps most importantly that the backstop (protocol) doesn't contradict the Good Friday Agreement

This follows concerns from DUP & others that the backstop itself cut against the GFA

3/

Second letter is clear that - even in backstop "any new act that the EU proposes should be added to the Protocol will require the agreement of the UK in the Joint Committee" - ie UK gets a veto over new directives, laws & regulations

[this is not well understood!]

4/

Third, letter makes clear that requirement for regulatory alignment in backstop is limited to that which is "strictly necessary" for upholding the Belfast / Good Friday Agreement and avoiding a hard border

- that is quite high test. Note not necessary but strictly necessary

5/

Fourth letter makes clear the UK can give NI institutions representation on its side of joint committee

This points back to commitment in December 2017 to give Stormont a veto over new regulatory divergence

6/

Fifth the letter stresses the joint UK-EU commitment to use "best endeavours" to conclude a agreement to replace backstop before end of 2020. And promises specifically that facilitation and technology (read - Max Fac) will be considered

7/

Sixth, there is a commitment that "Any arrangements which supersede the Protocol are not required to replicate its provisions in any respect, provided that the underlying objectives continue to be met".

8/

....This important commitment is a riposte to an often repeated but misunderstood sentence in the political declaration that the future arrangements would "build and improve on the Single Customs Territory"

9/

That was interpreted widely to mean that the only way to replace backstop would be with version of Single Customs Territory - a customs union.

The EU has explicitly said that is not the case

10/

Seventh, the EU commited to using full political impetus to making progress on the negotiations and to at least six monthly meetings

11/

The letter did note that EU wouldn't agree anything "inconsistent with the Withdrawal Agreement"

But remember that's not actually what is needed. It's already clear that the backstop isn't permanent (it's just that it applies unless and until) alternative comes into place

12/

What is needed is that commitments such as those already outlined in this letter be given legally-binding status 👇

13/

Response from Juncker to May

On Friday @MichelBarnier committed that the letter be given that legally enhanced status

This was not easily won as key member states felt the letter went too far and making it binding could strengthen the UK position too much

14/

Michel Barnier @ michelbarnier
3/5 EU ready to give legal force to all commitments from January letter of @eucopresident and @JunckerEU through joint interpretative statement.
t.co/kCUbTk4nYA This will render best endeavour/good faith obligations even more actionable by an arbitration panel.

Henry Newman @ henrynewman
Barnier also noted that the existing arbitration panel could allow the backstop to be suspended in whole or part if the EU failed to meet its commitments

The commitments in the letter (especially if made more binding) will strengthen UK position

15/

Michel Barnier @ michelbarnier
2/5 The arbitration panel can already, under Article 178 WA, give UK the right to a proportionate suspension of its obligations under the backstop, as a last resort, if EU breaches its best endeavours/good faith obligations to negotiate alternative solutions.

Henry Newman @ henrynewman
As @JGForsyth suggests some believe if UK secured clear enough commitment that backstop did not cut across Good Friday Agreement, it would allow UK to argue that backstop couldn't not therefore apply permanently as a matter of international law

16/

Spectator Article

These sort of legal changes won't meet the demands of every critic. But the key test should be - does the legal position change when @Geoffrey_Cox updates the House

All 👀 on that

17/17

OP posts:
WiseUpJanetWeiss · 11/03/2019 18:32

I wish there was a “like” button on here. So many insightful, brilliant and smart comments.

I have been hoping against hope that some of the cabinet have been playing a long game of poker, but now I’m certain we are led by donkeys and charlatans.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2019 18:35

Nowhere near adequate for No Deal, lonelyandtired
Hence the desperate DEFRA ads

HazardGhost · 11/03/2019 18:36

Vom alert Cameron was just on ITV news...he was being stalked by journos...he "doesn't think no deal is a good idea at all".

THEN WHY DID YOU SET UP A REFERENDUM WITH NO PLAN THEN DAVID?!!!

This wk is doing wonders for my stress levels.

67chevvyimpala · 11/03/2019 18:38

Its a good job I'm already feverish

I'm already nauseous too so I'm glad I missed some faced Dave 🤢

LonelyandTiredandLow · 11/03/2019 18:38

But the salary! Shock
My friend is applying for a Civil Service job where they have a "budget" to spend. I suggested at some point she broach the idea this may need to be flexible (although they are trying to support UK suppliers Hmm). I hope they don't take nouse in interview as a negative.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2019 18:39

Fabian Zuleeg@FabianZuleeg (Euroopean policy centre)

....no deal can't be ruled out as a political option, especially as it remains the default in absence of any other decision.

In my view, no deal probability still significantly above 50% under any scenario.

Despite flaws/opposition May's deal most likely alternative
.....

BBC News - Brexit talks deadlocked day before Commons vote on May's deal
(link: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47519637)

Better to have something left to change after short extension before the real final HoC vote HmmHmm

Peregrina · 11/03/2019 18:42

I had a couple of thoughts:

The Tory party members might well be happy to crash out, but what about all those employees in firms like the ones servicing cars, which we have just heard might go bankrupt and quickly, who might vote Tory normally, but won't at all costs?

The US Irish lobby. The biggy and ultimately with a lot more clout that the ERG.

As for Boris - this time he either has to put up or he really will have to shut up, and I am 100% sure that he doesn't want the clusterfuck of Brexit.