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Brexit

Westminstenders: Here we go again

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/03/2019 18:39

Vote 12th March: Meaningful Vote on the Withdrawal Agreement

Vote 13th March: If WA fails, vote on No Deal

Vote 14th March: If WA fails, vote on A50 extension

Not much more to add at this stage that's not repeating what's been said before.

OP posts:
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Lisette1940 · 11/03/2019 13:01

Sostenueto it's St Patrick's Day on Sunday so you can load up on the Baileys ice-cream and anaesthetise yourself with whiskey

Sanguineclamp · 11/03/2019 13:01

Clearly worrying the political commentators as to whether tomorrow's vote will be going ahead, and if so, what MPs will be voting for in the absence of no new agreement.

Lisette1940 · 11/03/2019 13:03

I don't know what to make of it any more...

RedToothBrush · 11/03/2019 13:10

Simon Usherwood @ usherwood
Let's walk through EU side of extension-request-ing 1/

A reminder: all the EU27 will have to approve any extension to Art.50 beyond 29 March 2/

Given the gravity of this (plus the uncertainty of what the UK intends by it), that almost certainly needs Heads of Gvt-level agt, logically at #EUCO on 21-22 March 3/

That in turn implies need for request from UK to go in by end of this week, to allow for domestic consultation/briefing/etc, ahead of actual decision 4/

Key Qs for EU27 on this:
- what's the point of the extension?
- does the time requested match the purpose?
- is there a plan for handling knock-on consequences? 5/

As frequently discussed, extensions to wrap-up WA implementation after +ve MV2, or to hold #GE19 or #PV would be (probably) fine, as purposeful 6/

Much less so, if just "we're in a fix and need some weeks to dream up a solution" 7/

Thus UK will have to look (and be, as much as possible in situation) like there's a plan, and good chance of plan happening 8/

Also, if extensions pushes up past #EP19 (23-6 May), then some ideas on how to handle (non-)elections in UK will be useful: EU will be v.alive to risk of making subsequent extension more difficult -> no-deal more likely 9/

However, right now main consideration for EU will be to work out what's actually going on in Commons. Absence of clear agenda or pathways through and past votes is major concern 10/

Desire to help out UK through local difficulty appears to be waning, with view that maybe it's easier just to cut it all off now coming through more often 11/

Another reminder: Brexit is not high on EU's list of Stuff To Deal With, so if closing door on it means being able to focus more on the rest of the list, then that might appeal in some quarters

(again, extension needs unanimity) 12/

Some discussion over w/e of EU extracting concessions from UK. Right now, extracting a plan would be top of the list 13/

Whatever the future relationship, EU needs to close off the liabilities dealt with in WA (citizens' rights, finances, Irish dimension), so that's the priority right now 14/

Yes, some MS might try to play hardball for something else, but still enough inertia in system for them to be knocked back into line by others

(that inertia will weaken if more than one extension BTW) 15/

Final thought: EU has accommodated UK's process problems at various points, but always sticking to underlying interests and Art.50 procedure, so don't expect EU side of any request to be automatic 16/

tl;dr Gvt and Commons might think a bit more about the EU side of extension requesting than they have

/end

Tweet 4.
Otherwise accidental no deal becomes a lot more likely

OP posts:
Sostenueto · 11/03/2019 13:11

lisette that is the best idea to relieve my brexit woes!Grin

1tisILeClerc · 11/03/2019 13:13

This just popped in my inbox.
What do you bods make of the small change in date. Significant?

{Meeting climate change requirements if there’s no Brexit deal

How climate change regulations, emissions trading, ecodesign and energy labelling would be affected if the UK leaves the EU with no deal.
10:42am, 11 March 2019: The 2018 compliance deadline to surrender allowances for the EU Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) is being extended from 15 March 2019 to 26 March 2019.
You’re getting this email because you subscribed to ‘Brexit’ updates on GOV.UK.}

DGRossetti · 11/03/2019 13:19

We are in great danger of "accidental" No Deal

No deal was the goal from the off. If it looks "accidental" then it absolves parliament of any responsibility - which is probably what all the smoke and mirrors we are currently seeing are for.

Don't waste any energy imagining the HoC will somehow save the day. They've sealed their own fate - and that of the country - 2 year ago. Only they didn't realise it.

Littlespaces · 11/03/2019 13:29

DGRossetti. That is so depressing.

I'm concerned about going to Europe now as I feel there will be a lot of bad feeling towards us.

Littlespaces · 11/03/2019 13:34

uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN1QS01F?__twitter_impression=true

A 10 percent shift in banking and finance activity would cut UK tax receipts by about 1 percent, the report said.

Relocations have cost firms $3 billion to $4 billion, which will be passed on to customers and shareholders, the report said.

Project Reality

Songsofexperience · 11/03/2019 13:38

littlespaces
I do go there a fair amount. I'll be in Brussels on Wednesday, which could be interesting (I have NOTHING to do with the EU by the way 😀). I have noticed a clear change in attitude in recent months. Not hostile towards individual Brits as such but very much WTF is going on with the UK and either sarcastic or pretty annoyed with the country as a whole. That's from countries traditionally very UK friendly.

DGRossetti · 11/03/2019 13:41

Relocations have cost firms $3 billion to $4 billion, which will be passed on to customers and shareholders, the report said.

"Shareholders" being big institutions that were planning to finance pensions and the like from the dividends that will be cut. Thus drying the economy out even more. A sinking tide ...

Littlespaces · 11/03/2019 13:42

I hope people are friendly towards you when you go to Brussels Songs.

It is hard being blamed for something you opposed.

DGRossetti · 11/03/2019 13:50

I suspect the reaction would be pretty much the same as people from Ireland had during the Troubles - a few bad jokes, but a general realisation that it was something individuals simply weren't responsible for ???

mrslaughan · 11/03/2019 13:58

What has made the older generation so selfish? My mother was fairly right-minded and became more entrenched in her views as she aged -BUT her children and grandchildren were everything to her. I was talking to a friend this morning and asked about a mutual friend - who is having a tough time for various reasons. Further to the general difficulties husbands business is not in great shape, essentially because if brexit. Turns out he has two siblings who also have there own business, who are also feeling negative effects. But their parents are of the leave means leave variety, obv voted brexit, but are completely stone deaf to the effects it will have to their children and grandchildren. Why is this older generation so much about "I'm fine, to hell with everyone else".

On the flip side I was in a car park recently behind some elderly drivers , I was sitting waiting patiently for them to sort themselves out when I spotted their bumper sticker which read "don't blame me, we voted REMAIN " - have to say - made my day.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2019 14:03

Littlespaces I live in Germany and I have experienced only sympathy

They don't blame ordinary Brits for the politicians' clusterfuck

bellinisurge · 11/03/2019 14:03

@mrslaughan my late Mum's last ever vote was for Remain. She was in her mid 80s.

Littlespaces · 11/03/2019 14:03

There probably will be a backlash.

I try to separate things out as much as possible with DF as it is so upsetting.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2019 14:04

Several Remainer Boomers on Westministenders, MrsL

Littlespaces · 11/03/2019 14:04

My late Mum voted Leave. :(

She was the kindest person who I think fell for the lies.

Littlespaces · 11/03/2019 14:05

BigChocFrenzy Could you send my apologies to the people you know? I'm just so sorry about all the trouble we have caused.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2019 14:11

Sure, littlespaces but try not to feel bad: Remainers didn't cause this

When we discuss Brexit here, I always remind people that over 48% voted Remain
and that many of us value our EU membership & citizenship.

They can't understand why, with such a narrow result, the UK govt didn't go for the softest possible Norway+++ Brexit, like Barnier was recommending early on

I'm still baffled myself, how the batshit were able to take over Confused

mrslaughan · 11/03/2019 14:11

Sorry - I probably phrased that all very poorly. I know that not all of the older generation voted leave, but if you do look at the demographics of the vote - there is a very definite lean towards the older generation inhabiting the leave camp. I have had several talks with friends whose parents voted leave and it was discussed before the vote, the effect of would have on them, friends, grandchildren- and there was no reasoning. The thing that struck me this morning about the discussion is that these people are starting to feel the effects, but the parents are still rubbing their kids face in it. Obviously does not do anything for positive family relationships. I just don't understand it, and I will say those in the older generation who I know (another friends mum who voted remain) can't understand her generations attitude.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2019 14:13

The govt chose winner take all twice over:

First for the 52%
and then for the majority of those Leavers who believed we could keep the benefits and drop all the things we they don't like

So, not a majority for batshit

HazardGhost · 11/03/2019 14:22

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-live-theresa-may-deal-vote-commons-eu-backstop-a8817091.html

Following the live feeds and here today. It's going like this...

May is going to Strasbourg, May may be going to Strasbourg.

May is giving a statement this afternoon, one of May's hounds is giving a statement.

Labour is very sorry to use harsh words - labour should have used these words last Summer when no deal was looking likely.

These people are useless.

TatianaLarina · 11/03/2019 14:25

If it looks "accidental" then it absolves parliament of any responsibility - which is probably what all the smoke and mirrors we are currently seeing

I don’t think that’s true, although I’m sure that’s what the ERG believe. Parliament will always be held responsible for allowing the country to fall out of the EU by accident, it would extreme negligence for which every single MP would be accountable. They do not have a mandate to create a national crisis.