Westminstenders: Here we go again

[RedToothBrush]

Vote 12th March: Meaningful Vote on the Withdrawal Agreement

Vote 13th March: If WA fails, vote on No Deal

Vote 14th March: If WA fails, vote on A50 extension

Not much more to add at this stage that's not repeating what's been said before.

Problem is with Revoke and Resign, would the next PM be able to reinstate Article 50?

Brexit: It’s far too late for UK to say what it wants, says Varadkar

Even Ireland is out of patience and won't grant an extension for the UK to continue avoiding the only available options.

This fits in with the mood music here in Germany and from Brussels
I wish our bloody MPs would LISTEN

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/brexit-it-s-far-too-late-for-uk-to-say-what-it-wants-says-varadkar-1.3821626#.XIZI2F8btYM.twitter

“I do hear some suggestion that the votes may be called off in favour of a new vote as a result of which the House of Commons would tell the European Union what they want.
That really misses the point ....

We’re two and half years if not three years since the referendum.

It is far too late for the United Kingdom to tell us what they want

The withdrawal agreement requires a compromise and this withdrawal agreement is already a compromise.”
....
“I think if there is going to be an extension. It has to be an extension with a purpose.

Nobody across the European Union wants to see a rolling cliff edge
where tough decisions just get put off until the end of April and then to the end of May and then maybe until the end of July

“The uncertainty around Brexit is already worrying citizens.
It is damaging business confidence, it is effecting our agriculture in particular.
It will affect other industries as well as the week goes on.

TM not publishing motion until late this afternoon or evening apparently......

Kitten The Miller case decision was that invoking A50 needs an HoC vote, because it deprives Uk citizens of existing rights.

The same doesn't apply to revoking because that doesn't lose any rights; it retains ones we would otherwise lose

So, re-invoking would legally only be possible if the HoC vote for it.
Would they do so again, knowing they would face exactly the same Brexit decisions they can't make now ?

Maybe - many are that batshit & ignorant

T.May Revoking isn't beyond the realms of possibility.

It would keep her party together & of course in power (ERG have nowhere to go) and she could blame Parliament for it all.

She won't resign, why would she?

The only possible reason I can see for May resigning is that it would possibly extract an extension from EU - as shown on that list they won't agree to an extension unless something very unexpected happens.

I've always said TM should revoke and resign. There is nothing worse than ambition being coupled with incompetence and unfortunately that is what what we have in TM.
But she is a crafty old bird and I'm sure she will try to hoodwink HoC and as they have the intelligence of a gnat that won't be hard to do. HoC must realise that if she won't allow a MV she has broken her word and then they should refuse to vote for WA unless it is a proper MV. But as I said TM is a crafty old bird......

Pmk

Jennifer Rankinn@JenniferMerode* (Guardian, Brussels)

EC spokes: "We are committed to ratifying this deal before the 29 March.

It is now for the house of commons to take an important set of decisions this week."

It really is looking more and more that no deal will prevail.

Problem is with Revoke and Resign, would the next PM be able to reinstate Article 50?

I think the bigger problem (already highlighted in these threads) is that if the UK were to revoke, and then retrigger A50, all the EU would do is put the WA on the table again as the withdrawal agreement of choice, leaving the UK exactly where we are now.

Ultimately you really can't hide the fact that for all the will of the people there was never any plan for Brexit, and there still isn't.

The only possible reason I can see for May resigning is that it would possibly extract an extension from EU - as shown on that list they won't agree to an extension unless something very unexpected happens.

I really don't think that would be enough ... after all it basically would set a pattern where the PM resigns, an extension is granted, new PM still can't deliver anything, resigns, an extension is granted ....

There will be no extension.

It really is looking more and more that no deal will prevail.

No deal was always going to prevail. It's the only route out of this.

jas Revoking would tear her party apart

That's what's driving her along: keeping her party together
That's what drove Cameron to that bloody ref
It's what Brexit was always about

There are far more hardcore Tory Brexiters than hardcore pro-EU
Very few Tories who supported Remain during the ref did so out of a genuine wish to Remain, more out of loyalty to Cameron / career reasons.

Voting to Revoke is very different politically to supporting Remain during the ref

The ERG are prepared to tear apart the Tory party if they don't get their way
So far, there are not anything like that number prepared to do so even to prevent No Deal, let alone Revoke

@Sostenueto MPs will not let that happen. I actually don't think TM will let that happen. The current "we can't take No Deal off the table" is like a toddler threatening to hold its breath. Meaningless childish nonsense . Fuck knows what needs to be done to stop No Deal but TM won't let No Deal happen. And if she fails, there are plenty of patriotic (yes, I said the word) MPs on both sides to work out a parliamentary way of stopping it.

Well, on a brighter note I have bought empty easter egg shells to fill with ice cream mixed with Baileys, topped with fresh whipped cream and chocolate sprinkles as a treat for my dd at the weekend.....

re-Invoking just means the govt would face the same decisions,
because the same WA would be on the table.

Only dropping govt red lines would change the WA
and renegotiation of a closer future relationship would require a long extension

• politically very difficult for either party

In any case, there does not seem to be a majority either for Revoke, or to drop red lines.

MPs are continuing to demand what they can't have, like tantrumming toddlers

The only one who can really stop no deal is TM as far as I can see and she has shown no sign of removing it. I'm sure someone will tell me I'm wrong so await with baited breath.

That's a relief BigChoc, I had visions of it being like the Slapping scene in Airplane, with every wannabe leader queuing up to have a go.

bellini You have far more faith in the common sense and morality of May and the MPs than I do

We are in great danger of "accidental" No Deal

because No Deal is what will happen if they don't choose an option that is actually available
They keep demnding something that the EU will not give

MPs don't yet have the courage to back down and accept the WA they overwhelmingly refused before
Or to drop red lines
Or to Revoke

Think I'll just add a bottle of gin to ice cream filling instead of Baileys, looks like we will both need to weep by the weekend ( gin makes me cry).

Currently we only have 2 more weekends in the EU

@BigChocFrenzy - that's why I'm a prepper. Because my faith in MPs doing the right thing only goes so far.

{I think the bigger problem (already highlighted in these threads) is that if the UK were to revoke, and then retrigger A50, all the EU would do is put the WA on the table again as the withdrawal agreement of choice, leaving the UK exactly where we are now.}
I think a 'smart' move by Mr Barnier and crew would be to state that the WA as it stands is all the UK will ever get, even if it revokes and re-triggers in a few years. I almost feel that I should read the WA, but on the basis that government ministers haven't bothered I don't feel too bad about it.

BCF Sure, but they won't leave the party, there are maybe 30 to 50 hardcore Brexitiers, they never left after Maastricht and they won't leave now, they like to be in a party of power.

One could argue that the Tory party is already split: ERG versus The rest of the party.
May is well aware that no-deal is economic suicide and could mean the Tories are out of power for a generation.

Whether a Revoke bill could get Parliamentary approval is another matter but the numbers would suggest it would.. how many MPs are hardcore leavers?
The proof will be the 2nd vote, assuming things go as promised/predicted

Look, i'm not for one minute saying she'll revoke but i do think its a possibility.

I think we're at either no deal or people's vote, people's vote being the only thing I can see the EU granting an extension for.

So it depends on how scared MPs are of the neon Nazis.