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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Rebellion

970 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/02/2019 22:43

This week is the start of another big week. Touted (again) as high noon. However the end of February marks a watershed in many ways. Parliament simply can not kick the can further. Its last stand time.

Three Cabinet ministers are openly saying back Cooper-Boles. They are joined by other ministers and intend to vote for it regardless of the government position. And will break protocol by refusing to resign to do so. This leaves May with the option of accepting it or sacking them.

The breaking of collective responsibility would be a bit deal. But May can not easily sack them. She simply has so little power left.

These ministers are backed by up to 100 moderates too. And with the emergence of the TIGGERS the mood has changed with others emboldened in their rebellion and arguably more likely to go.

Meanwhile Corbyn is losing even more authority. In what looks like a last ditch attempt to retain remain support in the face of the TIGGERS whilst also leaving to the point where it is realistic, noises are being made that Labour are about to back a People's Vote. It sounds symbolic rather than meaningful in anyway.

The antisemitic row, however, seems to be engulfing the party even further with MPs seen as Jewish, or not loyal Corbynites subject to intense amounts of abuse for being diplomatic or sympathetic in the face of resignations. The spectacle of Labour infighting has been laid bare in a very public way and it doesn't look healthy and is swallowing all column inches over and above any policy regarding either austerity or Brexit.

What this means for votes this week is important. The power of the whip on both sides of the house is completely fractured. MPs are more likely to vote with conscience than party lines than previously.

Where this leads us is now wide open.

An extension now looks all but inevitable. But for how long, at what price and for what ends ultimately in terms of a deal or no deal.

This noise seems very much at odds with other voices.

The Government itself, however, still seems to be planning to get WA legislation through parliament at the last minute at the end of March. (This would also involve May using measures which break parliamentary constitutional arrangements). And prominent leavers are suggesting that an extention will just kill Brexit off completely.

A GE is also very much looming. The TIGGERS emergence is such a threat that both parties will now possibly want it sooner rather than later (for slightly differing reasons). They will not want them to become established or prepared for an election. But calling an election now closes parliament and enables no deal by default. A GE after an extension or Brexit is a different prospect too.

Things are likely to get very busy this week. Time to brace once again.

OP posts:
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Ellie56 · 24/02/2019 00:30

RTB that does not sound good, but it explains a lot.

SusanWalker · 24/02/2019 00:49

That poll's a bit vague. It's all very well saying would you vote for labour if Corbyn wasn't leader, but how can you say if you don't know who would be?

If it was someone like Yvette Cooper, then yes, no question. But if it was Angela Rayner, apparently tipped as a possibility for the next leader, then no, not in a million.

7Days · 24/02/2019 00:56

I can't keep the pace with PMKing.

Events, dear boy.

GD12 · 24/02/2019 01:04

Prediction :- A50 will be extended but we'll crash out in June.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/02/2019 01:11

Thanks, red 💐

An even more dramatic period in British politics, which now with the Tiggers, brings all the possible Brexit outcomes back into play

Very interesting poll results you posted:
that Labour led by ABC (Any Bugger but Corbyn) could turn a big Tory GE victory into a small Labour one.
That could also embolden the PLP on the forthcoming Brexit votes in the HoC

BigChocFrenzy · 24/02/2019 01:26

peregrina Jewish Labour MPs and party members have been complaining for years about anti-semitism
The accumulation of offensive statements & Tweets by Labour activists, inclduing Corbyn himself, shows they aren't just imagining it

The defections and the statements of sympathy by those who haven't yet jumped ship are further evidence that many who are Jewish feel persecuted in the Labour Party

If an organisation was being criticised to this extent for years by say Afro-Caribean members claiming racism, with important resignations
I would certainly say there is something severely wrong and supect institutional racism

I think most posters here would too
So why not grant the same respect & consideration when it is Jewish people making these serious allegations ?

I know many posters here are furious with the Tories over Brexit, as well as UC and cuts generally
Hell, I hope the Tory party is destroyed permanently and replaced for creating this whole Brexit mess just to sort out their party squabbles

However, we should never close our eyes to anti-semitism or racism just because atm we oppose the other side more for different reasons
It is quite legitimate to decide that e.g, stopping Brexit is a more urgent problem than dealing with anti-semitism in Labour,
but then please be honest about the choices and don't minimise or deny this anti-semitism.

SisterOfDonFrancisco · 24/02/2019 01:29

I'm still hoping for a labour government even with their current leadership. I'd be feeling slightly more confident with starmer heading the negotiations for eu etc future trade deals. Though ultimately the whole brexit process should have been a cross party project from the beginning.

Quintella · 24/02/2019 01:31

A paedophile story involving the PM? Its the one subject which it so toxic that ordinary PR isn't sufficient to kill off the story.

Which reminds me, and please tell me to shove off if this is totally irrelevant to the thread, but I read that TM had had all trace of her father removed from the internet. Why would that be?

mathanxiety · 24/02/2019 02:31

Thanks,, RTB.

gnomeisland · 24/02/2019 02:53

A brief search on Google brings up plenty of info on May's father.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/02/2019 02:55

Quintella Her father had quite remote connections to some notorious scandals.
She may have had it hoovered up, to avoid tabloid sensationalism - they are usually too lazy to dig up facts themselves - but I couldn't blame her for that.

He didn't notice when working in the same hospital the activities of famous serial killer Dr John Bodkin Adams, or later in his own diocese, the child abusers
However, noone else seemed to notice either

If you are curious, even this scandal sheet couldn't make anything much of it all:

theswamp.media/theresa-may-s-father

BigChocFrenzy · 24/02/2019 03:03

Up to 20 more Labour MPs might go; Labour has many splits and the bullying has been toxic since well before the 2016 ref.

Far fewer Tories likely, because their only major split is over Brexit and the bullying has only started since then

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/23/20-more-mps-on-brink-of-quitting-parties-labour-tories-independent-group

Labour is most at risk of further splits – and the leadership seems divided on the best way to respond
...--
Former cabinet minister John Hutton said:
“Brexit is straining the fibres that keep our main parties together very profoundly.
Depending on how things go over the next couple of weeks, we could be looking at very significant changes in the structure of British politics.”

MissMalice · 24/02/2019 03:43

PMK

nuttynutjob · 24/02/2019 06:13

PMK

PeppermintCactus · 24/02/2019 06:24

PMK, thanks Red!

Flowerplower · 24/02/2019 06:39

Pmk thanks red and all who contribute to these threads - they feel like a lifeline to me.

Sostenueto · 24/02/2019 06:43

Thanks red for thread.Flowers
Wow! A real humdinger on May!

Cailleach1 · 24/02/2019 06:54

Didn't he do one on Corbyn, too?

Vis a vis the long persecution of Jews. I understand that. For each persecuted person though, irrespective of why, it doesn't matter if there is a longer history or what the 'reason' is, or what group they belong to.

A Yazidi hunted or persecuted by the I state b*ggers isn't any less a persecution. Or anyone, anywhere, anytime.

DoctorTwo · 24/02/2019 07:00

I would love an interviewer, obviously won't be the BBC, to ask May how much her husband stands to earn from Brexit.

1tisILeClerc · 24/02/2019 07:33

Marking a place on this thread.

borntobequiet · 24/02/2019 07:43

Placemarking to observe that May sprang the election on Tory colleagues, but given the state of the polls (and the local election results) the party was pretty gung-ho about it until they realised it was all going wrong.
academic.oup.com/pa/article/71/suppl_1/46/4930853
For contrast to his piece on May, here’s M Parris on M Thatcher, no share token, sorry
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/margaret-thatcher-the-warrior-who-turned-up-just-in-time-drrqtszzwzw

borntobequiet · 24/02/2019 07:43

And thanks again, Red.

Decormad38 · 24/02/2019 07:45

Just been told by my car insurance company that :

As your current motor insurance provider, we would like to highlight the possible impact of a no deal Brexit on your car insurance policy. If you intend to take your vehicle outside the UK after 29th March 2019 you will require a Green Card.

Depressing!

Motheroffourdragons · 24/02/2019 07:53

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

BiglyBadgers · 24/02/2019 07:57

Labour really does have a problem with anti-Semitism. It is also the case that criticism of Israel does without a doubt at times get used as a cover for genuine anti-Semitism. At the time time it is also absolutely true that there are times (and I have witnessed them) when accusations of anti-Semitism get used to shut down any and all discussion of Israeli policies that are harmful to Palestine and the Palestinian people even when those criticisms have been specific and policy based.

All these things can be and are true at the same time.

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