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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Rebellion

970 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/02/2019 22:43

This week is the start of another big week. Touted (again) as high noon. However the end of February marks a watershed in many ways. Parliament simply can not kick the can further. Its last stand time.

Three Cabinet ministers are openly saying back Cooper-Boles. They are joined by other ministers and intend to vote for it regardless of the government position. And will break protocol by refusing to resign to do so. This leaves May with the option of accepting it or sacking them.

The breaking of collective responsibility would be a bit deal. But May can not easily sack them. She simply has so little power left.

These ministers are backed by up to 100 moderates too. And with the emergence of the TIGGERS the mood has changed with others emboldened in their rebellion and arguably more likely to go.

Meanwhile Corbyn is losing even more authority. In what looks like a last ditch attempt to retain remain support in the face of the TIGGERS whilst also leaving to the point where it is realistic, noises are being made that Labour are about to back a People's Vote. It sounds symbolic rather than meaningful in anyway.

The antisemitic row, however, seems to be engulfing the party even further with MPs seen as Jewish, or not loyal Corbynites subject to intense amounts of abuse for being diplomatic or sympathetic in the face of resignations. The spectacle of Labour infighting has been laid bare in a very public way and it doesn't look healthy and is swallowing all column inches over and above any policy regarding either austerity or Brexit.

What this means for votes this week is important. The power of the whip on both sides of the house is completely fractured. MPs are more likely to vote with conscience than party lines than previously.

Where this leads us is now wide open.

An extension now looks all but inevitable. But for how long, at what price and for what ends ultimately in terms of a deal or no deal.

This noise seems very much at odds with other voices.

The Government itself, however, still seems to be planning to get WA legislation through parliament at the last minute at the end of March. (This would also involve May using measures which break parliamentary constitutional arrangements). And prominent leavers are suggesting that an extention will just kill Brexit off completely.

A GE is also very much looming. The TIGGERS emergence is such a threat that both parties will now possibly want it sooner rather than later (for slightly differing reasons). They will not want them to become established or prepared for an election. But calling an election now closes parliament and enables no deal by default. A GE after an extension or Brexit is a different prospect too.

Things are likely to get very busy this week. Time to brace once again.

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Peregrina · 25/02/2019 10:07

I agree too Susan.

I am more angry now than I was two and three quarter years ago.

EweSurname · 25/02/2019 10:10

Faisal Islam
‏*@faisalislam*
Article 50 extension was raised at Merkel-May meeting on fringes of EU-Arab league summit in Sharm-el-sheik - No 10 confirms

Sostenueto · 25/02/2019 10:10

We cannot keep kicking the ball down the road in hope that it will go away. The same problems will be there in 21 months time. We have to solve it now. TM bullies her way to WA JC buries his head in the sand cis he's not interested in Brexit and everyone else runs round like headless chickens. In ever decreasing circles. Until that all stops it will never get solved. Only advantage of a long extension is longer to prepare for the inevitable no deal scenario. But then it is a Tory government led by TM so ten years would not be sufficient time to prepare. I mean, I'm just an ordinary, average citizen but even I knew the minute the result of the referendum was announced I knew we would never, ever get a good deal from the EU. I would have started no deal preparations the very next day. How stupid and naive of all concerned to believe they would get a good deal. It is not in the EUs interest to give us a good deal and they had no intention of giving us one. But, that doesn't matter, we should have prepared from day one. So much for expensive education and money when none in HoC has any common sense.

prettybird · 25/02/2019 10:11

....yes, but by whom? Confused

SusanWalker · 25/02/2019 10:13

God I want a two year extension, just in the hope that in the EP elections, Farage loses his seat and becomes the non entity he should always have been.

SusanWalker · 25/02/2019 10:15

This is so true:

Cornwall for Europe #FBPE
@Cornwall4EU
#Brexit looks set to become the yardstick by which all political disasters are measured. Rather like the Titanic is the yardstick for maritime disasters.

A byword for dishonesty, incompetence & chaos.

"OK, it's pretty bad," people will say. "But it's not exactly Brexit, is it?"
11:59 PM · Feb 24, 2019 · Twitter Web Client

Motheroffourdragons · 25/02/2019 10:18

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

SusanWalker · 25/02/2019 10:21

Apparently bollocks to brexit doesn't translate well into cornish, so Cornwall for Europe are considering this for their banners. I thought you'd all appreciate it.

Westminstenders: The Rebellion
Frankiestein402 · 25/02/2019 10:30

The 'just get on with it' crowd need to be told: "OK we leave - then we continue the negotiation for a deal - leaving will not stop the chaos"

1tisILeClerc · 25/02/2019 10:31

{Of course we could have got a good deal - EEA/EFTA would have been good deals. Not as good as what we have at present but better than this WA.}

With a good negotiating team EEA/EFTA type arrangements could be made once the WA is signed.

Spot the immediate problem?

mrslaughan · 25/02/2019 10:51

"But now I have been ignored and essentially whitewashed out of the debate, whilst she panders to the ERG, I think fuck you, I'm going to continue to fight for remain."

Exactly this

BiglyBadgers · 25/02/2019 10:57

I would have accepted EEA/EFTA as well, as the obvious compromise on what is essentially a divided vote.

I had this conversation the other day. If leavers and the government had got on with the job, created a cross party consensus and negotiated a deal that meant things basically ran I would have still been disappointed we were leaving the EU and thought was a mistake, but I would have sucked it up and sighed through it like I do with all the other things we do that I disagree with.

I never thought the EU was perfect and I confess that I even wobbled a bit about my vote during the time before the referendum, so in the beginning I had a certain sympathy for those who voted leave. This has now all gone. It's the outrageous level of incompetence and disregard for the good of the country that is making me so furious and even more certain we should remain.

I'm embarrassed by the disaster we have made of this. If it wasn't actually happening I don't think I would believe it was possible to make quite such a mess of something when there was obviously perfectly feasible solutions right there for the taking.

dontcallmelen · 25/02/2019 10:59

bigly I feel exactly the same as your pp.

EweSurname · 25/02/2019 11:04

Laura Kuenssberg
‏*@bbclaurak*

  1. Dutch PM tells @bbcnews - "we are sleep walking into no deal scenario. It's unacceptable and your best friends have to warn you. Wake up . This is real. come to a conclusion and close the deal."
  2. Rutte says he is 'not optimistic' about May and Juncker finding a new way of handling the backstop, but says he could accept an additional 'interpretation' of what's been agreed in divorce deal, when we asked about codicil - telling that he named May-Juncker -
  3. Clear now No 10 hopes pinned on agreement btw May-Juncker on codicil so Attorney General can alter his legal advice, (Downing St seems to feel relatively hopeful, but not confident) , so it can then theoretically pass thro Parliament, and only after that, be approved by all 27
  4. That's certainly a different tone from the normal, things can only be agreed at 27, position and interesting that Rutte mentioned May-Juncker rather than Council in that context (if you are as nerdy as me) - he's increasingly seen as the deal maker
dontcallmelen · 25/02/2019 11:07

I do often muse as well, that if our MEP’s were a bit more vocal & informed us now & then what was happening ie various grants, programmes etc that benefit us here in the U.K. (on a previous thread one poster mentioned a letter they had received from an MEP about youth unemployment grants) maybe people would not have been so ambivalent about the E.U., I have no idea who my MEP is & when the elections were.
Possibly if the general electorate felt more involved in/with the E.U. it may have not have come to this, I’m probably being a bit simplistic but personally I always felt quite disconnected.

EweSurname · 25/02/2019 11:08

Laura Kuenssberg
‏*@bbclaurak*

  1. On delaying Brexit date? Rutte said 'It's up to UK. If UK ask for delay, the EU will ask what do you want with it? We don't want to go round in circles for the next couple of months. What will be achieved by it?'
Grinchly · 25/02/2019 11:15

bigly. Agree with every word of your last post.

1tisILeClerc · 25/02/2019 11:16

dontcallmelen
You raise a good point.
I think part of the problem is that on the whole legislation that the MEPs deal with is often low key and 'boring' and it's difficult to really promote 'beige' to the populace.
Having a 'press' (certainly the tabloids) that has an overall 'anti EU' agenda doesn't help either.
Then you have the mouthy twat Farage who is just disruptive partly for the sake of it and partly to make money personally. His speeches in Brussels are an embarrassment to the UK.

Peregrina · 25/02/2019 11:22

You don't have one MEP. Among mine I number Catherine Bearder, Lib Dem, a Green whose name I now forget, a Labour person, ditto, all of whom I voted for, plus Farage and Hannan, who I most certainly did not vote for, and some others.

Peregrina · 25/02/2019 11:25

Now if we did get an extension, and did have to vote for MEPs, it would be really good if we could ditch Farage, Hannan and company and get some pro-EU MEPs elected.

It's a bit unfortunate that they are due at the end of May, whereas the Local Government ones are due at the beginning.

prettybird · 25/02/2019 11:38

I have 6 MEPs, including, unfortunately, the execrable and odious Douglas Coburn, the only elected UKIP representative in any capacity in Scotland Sad (He only got in in 2014 under "last man standing rules", replacing the LibDem MEP after the LibDem vote collapsed): 2 SNP, 2 Labour, 1 Conservative and to our shame 1 UKIP.

We have the lovely Alyn Smith (he of the 'chers amis' address to the European Parliament after the Referendum).

A large Part of the problem is the sensationalist MSM, preferring to put up flamboyant characters like Nigel Farage (32 times on Question Time at last count Angry), and has never put a pro-EU MEP on QT Angry (33 UKIP appearances up to February 2018 and 2 by the anti-EU Conservative MEP Daniel Hannan Hmm versus, well zero by pro-EU MEPs).

In addition to Aly Smith in Scotland, I have seen Labour's Catherine Stihler talk and she was very positive and could have had a lot of good to say on MSM, if she'd ever been given a platform Confused

67chevvyimpala · 25/02/2019 11:42

5 meps here
2 UKIP
2 Tory
1 labour

DarlingNikita · 25/02/2019 11:42

Thanks Red.

MEPs: mine go from the sublime (Seb Dance, who I have a crush on ever since the fly-on-the-wall programme about the EU whose name eludes me) to Gerard Batten

Peregrina · 25/02/2019 11:43

and could have had a lot of good to say on MSM, if she'd ever been given a platform

So could Catherine Bearder from the S East, and Molly Cato, the Green MEP from the South West, but no, it's wall to wall Farage.

RedToothBrush · 25/02/2019 11:45

Eric Pickles @ Eric pickles
This is the Order that prescribes the whole of Hizballah. The Government joins other countries in recognising that there is no real difference between the military and political wings of Hizballah.

No one in the UK with any sense of responsibility would call them our ”friends”

Steven Swinford@steven_swinford
Big moment

The UK has just banned Hezbollah, preventing supporters from parading its flag through the streets of Britain

It will be interesting to see how Jeremy Corbyn responds - will he oppose the move?

See @edwardmalnick scoop from Sunday Tel:
www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/23/hizbollah-banned-uk-government-soon-week/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Hizbollah to be banned by UK Government as soon as this week

Eesshhh.
Awkward.
And deeply political domestically as well as internationally.

Westminstenders: The Rebellion
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