Westminstenders: Stuck in the Middle With TIGGERS

[RedToothBrush]

Well I don't know how we got here tonight.
We've got the feeling that something ain't right.
We're so scared as we leave the EU
And we're wondering how we'll get out of this stew

Antisemites to the left of me!
Dog Whistles to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

'Cause I'm stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.
And I'm wondering what it is we should do.
It's so hard to keep this smile from my face.
Losing control and running all over the place.

Clowns to the left of me!
Jokers to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

When you started off with rights
And you're starting to wonder if thats for life.
And all the politicians come crawling
Slap you on the back and say
Please . . .
Please . . .
Vote Leave and back EU Withdrawal

But we see it makes no sense at all.

Best to keep your money offshore
Than to visit the bookstore

Deniers to the left of me!
Islamaphobes to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle with you.

Its finally happened. FINALLY.

MPs have seen that their leaders have lost the plot and are hell bent on destruction and politicial ideology ahead of practicality and will justify the unjustifable in the face of democracy and they have jumped ship.

Enter stage left and stage right: The TIGGERS - members of The Independent Group.

Will there be more. Hard to say no. It seems almost certain there will be more.

Will it make a difference? Difficult to call, but these MPs would be driven out sooner or later. Such is our accelerating politicial polarisation and narrowing of views. This is their last stand. They have nothing left to lose on a personal level.

Whether you agree with the TIGGERS or still look to the other parties for policy, I do think that the emergence of the TIGGERS marks a feeling of optimism and much needed hope for many many Remainers / Moderates, even if it ultimately does fizzle out.

A reflection from 2017: People voted for Corbyn because they were looking for Hope. When he's failed to deliver that, its led to disillusionment and he can not pull the same trick again at a future GE. This makes that doubly so. People are STILL very much looking for that hope. If Brexit does go tits up in a big fashion, then what happens? To what direction do people look? I'm sure there will be the bitterest of recriminations, but... hope is a big deal. We need something...

Tick tick tick. 37 days til Brexit.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation

Does anyone know the numbers of Labour MPs who don't support a PV and whether they would resign if Corbyn came out for one ?

I think it's impossible to know that.

Not supporting a PV does not necessarily mean someone would resign. With the situation so fluid knowing what any MP will do when push comes to shove is just speculation. I'm guessing that some MPs themselves don't know what they would do, and it will depend on timing and what the alternative was.

TalkinPeece, which party was she from? (sorry if that sounds disingenuous but it's a genuine question!)

Nikita
She happened to be Labour, but I dissed all the party leaders for the sake of balance

Mrslaughan
It is becoming increasingly hard for Jews I feel to separate their religion from their loyalties to Israel . I think a lot of this has to do with the creation of Jewish schools here (and in the states - particularly around NYC).

There are two Jewish preschools within about half an hour's walk from me, in different directions. They both cater for children from 2 to 5, interweaving Jewish culture with the usual early childhood activities and routine (just as the RC preschools interweave Catholic culture with preschool). Jewish children here tend to go to the public schools for 1st grade onwards. The two temples sponsoring the preschools also conduct weekend classes for elementary and high school students where instruction is more formal.

It's a liberal/progressive MC-UMC area (strong support for Bernie Sanders last time round) and the Jewish community is quite large and active. There are very few Orthodox Jews in the area and no Hasidic community. It's an area where people hear news of some very rare murder or assault and are shocked and surprised. Lovely lawns, tall trees, and people can and do leave cars and homes unlocked.

Thanks to the state of the US and to its gun laws, both of the temple campuses are fenced and protected 24/7 by private security services as well as by cameras. If there is a flare up of anti-Semitic graffiti or any attacks in any neighbouring area the local police mount a visible vigil. None of the security is in-your-face, but it is there all the same and I can't help comparing it with the simple CC camera by the door connected to the school office that greeted me when I had children in my local RC elementary school, located right on the side of the street and impossible to fence in, but never facing any credible threat because nobody wants to murder RCs any more in the US, so this is not an issue.

When a community has to consider the possibility of being targeted by people who are so consumed by hatred and bigotry that the threat of little children being murdered in their classrooms is one that needs to be addressed, I suspect this has the effect of concentrating the mind in a powerful way on the topics of safety and security and how best to attain those necessary states, and hence the focus on Israel as a guarantor of Jewish safety worldwide, with threats to its existence taken very seriously.

TalkinPeece, quite right

You know how the last council elections in North London were a bit of a nightmare for Labour because of antisemitism and they lost seats.

Well they just lost another on Barnet Council

Jessica Brayne @ jessicabrayne
Today I have left the Labour Party. It was not an easy decision, but has been a long time coming. I realised fear of abuse was holding me back, especially being pregnant, but Luciana's bravery has been inspirational. I will continue to serve as an independent Councillor.

Yesterday they lost one in Derby

(That's a Chris Williamson's patch, I note. He's MP for Derby North)

www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-news/derby-labour-councillor-quits-party-2572045.amp?__twitter_impression=TRUE
Derby Labour councillor quits party over issues including anti-semitism
Dom Anderson will now represent Boulton as an independent

In response to the story above about the Derby Councillor

Kate Godfrey @ KateGodrey_
I had no idea about this, but the two best young councillors I know have both quit the party today. This is really snowballing into something.

There was one who defected from Lab to Con in Brighton and Hove which affected control of the council earlier this week too.

Various people on twitter have said quite a number have gone this week, but I don't have numbers or details.

HMRC are already planning on being overwhelmed.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47343828

www.brightonandhovenews.org/2019/02/22/brighton-councils-former-leader-quits-labour/

In fact there were two Labour resignations in Brighton and Hove this week. This one has gone Independent though.

Rowan Draper @ rowan_draper
My full resignation statement. Enough is enough. Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour is not the party I joined and has allowed the virus of antisemitism to infect Labour: #littleworthcllr @staffordbc
rdlittleworth.wordpress.com/2019/02/22/enough-is-enough/amp/?__twitter_impression=TRUE

And one in Stafford...

Wow! It's a real "I am Spartacus" moment

That's five I can find, just having a quick look on Twitter.

I don't know if any of the press have picked up on this or are looking up how many councillors have gone, but 5 in a week over anti semitism (all these 5 cite it as one of their reasons) is not a good look by any stretch of the imagination.

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/23/buoyed-by-freedom-rebels-now-follow-their-consciences?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true
Buoyed by freedom, the rebels are now able to follow their consciences
By Nick Cohen

Fear about the fragility of Britain is cracking the old parties. Everyone is concentrating on the politicians who, like Austin, have resigned. Theresa May and Corbyn would do well to worry about the MPs they have left behind. Many look at Austin, Anna Soubry, Chuka Umunna et al and notice they are like prisoners who have thrown off their chains. They are finally free to say what they think and freedom is infectious.

Cohen is one of my fav columnists I have no trouble admitting.

The whole article is good.

I note the key words again: 'hope' and 'freedom'.

It's a reoccurring theme of British politics atm.

I suspect this has the effect of concentrating the mind in a powerful way on the topics of safety and security ... with threats to its existence taken very seriously.

That is eminently understandable in that instance. However it is not a good idea to have any state set up as a paragon of virtue that must not be criticised. It would create another form of prejudice. -off topic why do we have to have any religious schools

NB LOTS AND LOTS of councillors are dreading the may elections.

Its only because the muppets in the anti cuts party round here demanded a by election fastest way to burn £35,000 yet invented
that we have ours in a couple of weeks

all sensible councils will wait till May for their vacancy filling

Labour under Miliband was considered unelectable as well. Probably under Brown too. Blair was a glitch of some kind.

Btw, hope is all that politicians will ever offer. Real change is something that they don't seem able to deliver.

feeling very disillusioned with everything.

The vicious bullying of Jewish labour MPs, councillors and members are not what I consider "legitimate criticisms of Israel"

If some Labour party members disagreed with their views on Israel, then they should have criticised those views,
instead of continually attacking & bullying the individuals expressing those views

Now the Labour party's institutional anti-semitism & bullying misogyny

• and Corbyn's lack of interest in dealing with this -

has driven out some MPs & councillors, with maybe more to follow.

McDonnell and many other MPs seem to finally understand this and admit the party has a serious problem, that it should have done better.

But Corbyn doesn't admit to error
He is as stubborn as May, but 10 x as stupid
and his supporters are busy in social media demonising the defectors
Magic Grandpa's hands are clean, of course

DG wrt Russia. Having spent a lot of time studying the USSR back in the 70s, I believed then and now that, as you say, the main aim has always been preservation of their security. However, that is not simply a matter of reactive defence to perceived threat. Part of Soviet security was to maintain a cordon of countries around them under USSR influence/ domination. The entry of former Soviet bloc countries into NATO must feel deeply destabilising to Russia and I'm not convinced it was a wise move on the part of NATO. On the other hand, a key part of maintaining Soviet/Russian security was, and I believe still is, to sow dissent among potential opponents, recognising that "bourgeois democracy" is a fragile institution and that undermining it represents a (non-violent) preemptive move. I'm not for a moment suggesting that somehow Brexit is a Russian responsibility but I do think that Putin believes it is favourable to his plans, whatever they are. And I don't think he's looking to do the UK any favours...

Some of the Tiggers looked like people who have managed to leave a toxic workplace and didn't realise how toxic it was until they had left.

I do think it might turn into something. I think it will depend on what happens next week.

Corbyn does seem to have lost his mojo. The more he's challenged the more he looks like an angry man. In fact he reminds me increasingly of Fudge in Harry Potter at the end of the goblet of fire. When Harry sees him as a weak, stubborn, angry man in denial about Voldemort, rather than the benign, avuncular man Harry thought he was.

But Corbyn doesn't admit to error
He is as stubborn as May, but 10 x as stupid

BCF JC is nowhere nr as stupid as May, his plan for Brexit is head an shoulders above Mays (even if it would evolve during negotiation, to be even softer)
Esp as she is perfectly fine with a no-deal brexit, which is insanity.

He is also publicly saying that a PV is a possibility - May has ruled one out full stop.

Anyone see Anna Soubry Sourberry on The Last Leg?

Whatever happens with the Tiggers I hope she doesn't take a lead in health and social care. To summarise - she feels there's some issues in the details of benefits but the amount being paid is fine. She has no reach with my demographic (pre care days and current carer days) and it'll be disappointing if thats the middle ground being developed.

Corbyn has long been known to have a bit of sympathy for Palestinians. Is that his anti-semitism?
People are locking themselves into camps that must not be criticised, or the critics are '-phobic' or 'anti-'. It's getting absolutely rabid.

I don't know about their relative intelligence but in terms of stubborn refusal to see what's obvious to most people, Corbyn strikes me as being on a par with May.

But Corbyn doesn't admit to error
He is as stubborn as May, but 10 x as stupid
and his supporters are busy in social media demonising the defectors
Magic Grandpa's hands are clean, of course
THIS
The vindictive tribal dog eat dog is so blerdy dumb
People's Front of Judea and all that