Westminstenders: Stuck in the Middle With TIGGERS

[RedToothBrush]

Well I don't know how we got here tonight.
We've got the feeling that something ain't right.
We're so scared as we leave the EU
And we're wondering how we'll get out of this stew

Antisemites to the left of me!
Dog Whistles to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

'Cause I'm stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.
And I'm wondering what it is we should do.
It's so hard to keep this smile from my face.
Losing control and running all over the place.

Clowns to the left of me!
Jokers to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

When you started off with rights
And you're starting to wonder if thats for life.
And all the politicians come crawling
Slap you on the back and say
Please . . .
Please . . .
Vote Leave and back EU Withdrawal

But we see it makes no sense at all.

Best to keep your money offshore
Than to visit the bookstore

Deniers to the left of me!
Islamaphobes to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle with you.

Its finally happened. FINALLY.

MPs have seen that their leaders have lost the plot and are hell bent on destruction and politicial ideology ahead of practicality and will justify the unjustifable in the face of democracy and they have jumped ship.

Enter stage left and stage right: The TIGGERS - members of The Independent Group.

Will there be more. Hard to say no. It seems almost certain there will be more.

Will it make a difference? Difficult to call, but these MPs would be driven out sooner or later. Such is our accelerating politicial polarisation and narrowing of views. This is their last stand. They have nothing left to lose on a personal level.

Whether you agree with the TIGGERS or still look to the other parties for policy, I do think that the emergence of the TIGGERS marks a feeling of optimism and much needed hope for many many Remainers / Moderates, even if it ultimately does fizzle out.

A reflection from 2017: People voted for Corbyn because they were looking for Hope. When he's failed to deliver that, its led to disillusionment and he can not pull the same trick again at a future GE. This makes that doubly so. People are STILL very much looking for that hope. If Brexit does go tits up in a big fashion, then what happens? To what direction do people look? I'm sure there will be the bitterest of recriminations, but... hope is a big deal. We need something...

Tick tick tick. 37 days til Brexit.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation

And this one's useful too (although most points have been raised on these threads already). I personally didn't know about the different international driver's license required for driving in Spain and France:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/23/brexit-what-happens-the-next-day-if-there-is-no-deal

In the summer I tend to drive in both countries so will need to apply for two licenses. Great.

I don't know violet but red or another well I formed poster will. I thought the majority were to leave but not sure.

Who else remembers this song from the 80s? I have it in my head right now. Of course it applies to the whole planet going down the drain as well, not just our domestic woes...

Of course I remember it Quietrebel, although it is 'Men at work' Down under that inspired me.

I know the thread has probably moved on - but I just wanted to put my oar in re;anti-Semitisim vs anti-Israel. It is becoming increasingly hard for Jews I feel to separate their religion from their loyalties to Israel . I think a lot of this has to do with the creation of Jewish schools here (and in the states - particularly around NYC) . I have a good friend here who is Jewish who originally sent her boys to the local Jewish school. The reason we talked in depth was both her son and mine were if similar age with learning difficulties. In the course of the discussions it became apparent that a huge part of the day was spent on religious education- but this was tied up with the importance of Israel to the Jewish religion. A lot of the money that would be put aside for SEN support was diverted to pay the rabbi's.
Because of this she took her boys out the the school(hard decision) and couldn't believe how she was ostracised- it was seen as her turning her back on her religion. She was horrified. Her point was that she had a very strong faith and growing up in north London Jewish state schools were not available at that point. So her religious education happened through her family and local synagogue.

When I think of the ERG I think this should be their theme song:

Link is to Paint it Black if it's not obvious. Interesting screenshot that Youtube has selected.

Renewing Norton anti virus yesterday and reading t&c (I know I need to get out more) and it states only valid in EU. Can we add that to the list of things never considered? I know the list doesn't actually exist but if it did ...

I suspect reading the T&Cs on all manner of things that are still in warranty could be 'interesting' reading. OR,,,perhaps not !

Louise Mensch in the spectator arguing for delaying brexit. She's a full on leaver I think, though she's now based in New York, so this is an interesting move.

It’s time to delay Brexit
I’m a Leave voter – and I want to press pause

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/its-time-to-delay-brexit/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Off topic, but I'm puzzled - I posted a brief message on Anna Turley's Twitter account and got a reply (from a man) : "5 followers since 2011 huh" It's true - I have only 5 followers - but since I didn't use my Twitter account until recently (a friend and I set them up and then decided we couldn't be bothered to use them). I've replied:
And that matters why? Do you mean that unimportant people like me aren't allowed to have/voice opinions? Or that because I wasn't confident enough to make use of my account until recently, I should shut up (and get back to my knitting?) But why did he bother? It feels like bullying (or a fairly mild variety, but nonethess ).

Hit send too soon - I just don't get the point!

@Missbel Sorry about your Twitter experience.
I am not on there, but I read the village Facebook page mainly concerning traffic. Any time a woman posts, men rip her into shreds. We are all locals, so they just feel entitled. Giles Fraser the lot of them.

Thanks Elenade. Since I don't know the guy it doesn't trouble me too much - but I thought there was a certain irony in trying to shut someone up who was supporting a protest about bullying!

So, what is the point of delaying, as proposed by Ms Mensch?
The UK can't make it's mind up so she is proposing to bugger around a bit more and revoke and annoy the rest of Europe by being disruptive when there is real work to do, or just delay and dawdle without making any real plans.
The UK needs to pull it's big girls pants up and leave on 29 March then dazzle the world with it's brilliance.

But why did he bother?

I'm going to hazard a guess that he didn't like what you said but, being unable to actually refute it, decided to try and diminish and belittle you instead. So people won't notice you said a clever a thing because they now have their attention drawn to the fact that you don't have many followers and can disregard you because of it.

With apologies to the male posters here, it is a tactic that I have come across exclusively from men.

I comfort myself with the fact that everyone else, who cares to, can see the full conversation and can see one side engaging and one side simply deflecting and attempting to diminish - and they are not so thick as to fall for the technique. It is simply that poster's over-inflated belief in their own brilliance and superiority to you that lets them think such a technique will achieve anything but making i'm look supercilious and ignorant . (recently had someone ask me to name names when I said powerful women throughout history had been shut away and called 'mad' when they became inconvenient. So I named names. They couldn't be bothered to read my answer - they posted back - it was too long. Takes a well inflated ego not to realise that answer makes them look stupid - not the person who took the time to given them the information they had asked for.)

Try not to let it bother you - and most of all - don't let him shut you up.

Good reply missbel

Thank you Icanreach - you'v articulated what I was thinking so much better than I did! And no, I'm too long in the tooth to be worried about it, but I did think I must have riled him somehow! (and I'm not worried about the no. of Twitter followers since I mainly go there to read and support people I admire)

That Louise Mensch article is interesting. She's always been a Brexiteer, but argues for a pause to A50 because we haven't yet negotiated a good deal for us: Now is not the time for Britain to leave without a deal, when we would all prefer a deal.
Also she thinks time is needed to investigate Russian interference in elections, and she's concerned about MPs defecting from parties, making it For Leavers, as well as for Remainers, ... bad timing.

Some quite surprising sentiments: (Revoke!)

As long as we leave the EU by the next election, I, and surely millions of Leave voters, will be content. If Brussels will not agree, we should simply revoke Article 50 and re-invoke it at the time of our own choosing.
I am for Brexit. I was always for Brexit. I am still for Brexit. First and foremost I am for Britain, for her national security and her prosperity. We, as a nation, are not ready to leave the EU. We should do so in our own time and on our own terms, not those set in Moscow.

Call me a cynic, but... maybe the beginnings of Brexiteers wanting to prevent disaster, in order not to be blamed for it?

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/its-time-to-delay-brexit/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

"Some self imposed clock will run out" urgh. I somehow doubt she wanted to delay A50 . That article makes me cross. She sounds entitled, elitist and cakeist. I don't know why but the more leavers "suddenly" realise their idiotic ideology is going to have consequences I increasingly don't feel like giving them more time. If they can explain what they intend to do with the time, that would be slightly more interesting, but these people never do. It will be left again for someone else to sort it out.

Missbel - it is bullying. Everyone has to start somewhere on Twitter. Some aren't bothered about follower numbers as they're not trying to be 'someone' on there. I'd just mute or block someone like him (and it is usually a him) and carry on.

As long as we leave the EU by the next election,

Surely to have left by the next election (assuming it happens when it is supposed to and not before) we would have to reinvoke article 50 by May 2020? Does Louise Mensch really believe that this government - having achieved nothing since June 2016 - can have sorted out something they do want, which isn't worse than what we currently have, that doesn't involve a backstop and is possible by next May?

Or is this just the beginning of a retreat? Not willing, yet, to say 'no brexit' she just says 'not yet - but soon' - kicking the can further down the road until 'no brexit' is just the default and doesn't need to be said?

Interesting that she definately blames Moscow and seems to admit they had Russian help to win. Also the bit about "gloating remainers" - when did we get any chance to do that? Sorry, she's annoyed me. I think Leavers in general are annoying me today (just like every day!).

That's what I thought Hester. I'm not convinced by her arguements but it is interesting seeing a strong leaver supporter building an argument for revoking A50 even on a temporary basis. Particularly right now. I thought it was definitely worth a share just to see what other people thought.

Indeed. It's another variation of cake-ism

Louise Mensch is frustrated that "her" vision of Brexit is not going to be achieved and ignores the fact that it was never achievable and suggests that we muck the EU around just put it off for a bit, so that we can have another attempt at everlasting cake