Westminstenders: Stuck in the Middle With TIGGERS

[RedToothBrush]

Well I don't know how we got here tonight.
We've got the feeling that something ain't right.
We're so scared as we leave the EU
And we're wondering how we'll get out of this stew

Antisemites to the left of me!
Dog Whistles to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

'Cause I'm stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.
And I'm wondering what it is we should do.
It's so hard to keep this smile from my face.
Losing control and running all over the place.

Clowns to the left of me!
Jokers to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

When you started off with rights
And you're starting to wonder if thats for life.
And all the politicians come crawling
Slap you on the back and say
Please . . .
Please . . .
Vote Leave and back EU Withdrawal

But we see it makes no sense at all.

Best to keep your money offshore
Than to visit the bookstore

Deniers to the left of me!
Islamaphobes to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle with you.

Its finally happened. FINALLY.

MPs have seen that their leaders have lost the plot and are hell bent on destruction and politicial ideology ahead of practicality and will justify the unjustifable in the face of democracy and they have jumped ship.

Enter stage left and stage right: The TIGGERS - members of The Independent Group.

Will there be more. Hard to say no. It seems almost certain there will be more.

Will it make a difference? Difficult to call, but these MPs would be driven out sooner or later. Such is our accelerating politicial polarisation and narrowing of views. This is their last stand. They have nothing left to lose on a personal level.

Whether you agree with the TIGGERS or still look to the other parties for policy, I do think that the emergence of the TIGGERS marks a feeling of optimism and much needed hope for many many Remainers / Moderates, even if it ultimately does fizzle out.

A reflection from 2017: People voted for Corbyn because they were looking for Hope. When he's failed to deliver that, its led to disillusionment and he can not pull the same trick again at a future GE. This makes that doubly so. People are STILL very much looking for that hope. If Brexit does go tits up in a big fashion, then what happens? To what direction do people look? I'm sure there will be the bitterest of recriminations, but... hope is a big deal. We need something...

Tick tick tick. 37 days til Brexit.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation

John Cryer is supporting the amendment to pass May's deal then put it to the country in a confirmation referendum. As his letter says he is a leaver and had never supported a second ref. He specifically says the public should confirm whether they want May's deal or remain. Am I allowed to feel a tiny bit hopeful?

It does feel like there's a tiny sliver of light at the end of the tunnel since the TIGgers came forwards. I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic, I think.

Jeremy Corbyn is holding a rally in Broxtowe tomorrow. I would have thought he'd have better things to do, like dealing with the issues in his party.

Catching up after some wine - yes ERG are now more "mainstream" guy on R4 this arvo speaking very slowly aka Mogg which 2 years ago most leavers would have found "annoying" or "patronising" is clearly trying to form a psuedo intellectual argument whilst sending half of the listeners into a deep hypotherapy sleep.

Leaver friend tonight said that her roads were covered in potholes and couldn't understand why the council didn't "get" that resurfacing the whole road was needed, as that works best. I pointed out her council were under austerity so £50 per hole looks a lot better than 3k per road... I went on to use her analogy many times in our subsequent Brexit conversations until she went off on one (after saying 30 years later countries shouldn't be held accountable for their actions) ranted on about Nazis . Needless to say she had reached frothing point so we ended the convo shortly thereafter.

prettybird yes a lot of MP's sit on issues that they have little understanding of. I pointed out a few threads ago that half of the issues we face would be fine if only our politicians had an ounce of a clue of the sector they are responsible for. Gove - has to catch up on 30+ years of environmental knowledge in what, 3 months? before he can seriously sound like he even knows what he is talking about because he studied (30 years ago) English as a BA and got a 2:1. How is he qualified to take over the top spot in Env and Agri for the country? In Tory pure business terms it makes no sense.

Found the tweet by the ERG member finally!
........' And, enough of people saying they would be welcome back- this is a lie and everyone knows it. Soubry called the PM a racist.
Allen said she wants to destroy the party. They are fundamentalists/democracy deniers with incredibly inflated opinions of their own ability.' Cripes nice people or what?(not)

Jeremy Corbyn seems to be fairly absent of late. The media is always reporting comments from McDonnell, then Watson. If he's attending rallies it doesn't seem that Brexit is taking up all his time.

Actually after a quick skim of Gove's wiki page, he just moulds like a fungus into any situation he is put in. Labour until he reached Oxford went on strikes etc beforehand

Well, no surprises, knew he was a tentacle slapper, but...is he also doing shady 4yr secret deals with US on Agri policy? (aka Fox in Indi yesterday) or does Fox have his permission, despite tentacles very recent media profile stating otherwise?

Sos that ties in with my leaver friend saying they are remainer "extremists". Central politics from the far right looks like a circle

I can't de y there is anti- semitism in the labour party but I do think its being blown out of all proportion and used by dissatisfied MPs who haven't got the guts to tell the truth about why they quit. Nothing like trying to destroy your former club as you take a sharp exit and the media love it. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the Tory party had a hand in spreading an inflated account of it. It suits them, the most racist party ever, if labour disintegrates before they do.

So if TM is trotters up in 3 months after doing her bit as the "liberal" brexiter remainer canon fodder, who do we think ERG is going to put up next? I think Mogg is behind the scenes funder/networker for the press but is likely to shove Boris (clown he can puppeteer) into the spotlight. Any other ERG's popular enough to make a competition? Risk with Boris is he is a complete buffoon which hasn't gone completely unnoticed even by the most ardent Brexiteers. Leaver friend suggested Barker would be "a good PM" two days ago...I'm lost as to where she is getting her intel from (swears blind she doesn't read the Express all rantings to the contrary) but perhaps he is one to watch?

Giles Fraser's wife has just had a baby as well so he's probably feeling left out and is seeking attention. He's clearly a bloke susceptible to cults.

And finally before I retire, the case of a man who argued that in a post Brexit UK he wouldn't have Human Rights is shipped over by the Tories to make them look better within the Brecit crisis you shouldn't have used that excuse in court and drawn attention to us you twot.

When I heard about the 7, lone ranger and 3 amigos ( especially the 3 amigos after their speeches) I had a bit of hope but now I think they really are all the same. I would vote for a more central party as I'm beyond far right or far left, too old for it all, I like a peaceful life. I suppose there's always the greens......

Steve Baker has a small majority and zero charisma - he's genuinely vulnerable. Corbyn would be better placed going to Wycombe than Broxtowe.

I bet TM wasn't happy having being forced to agree she would not lead the Tories in another election after vote of confidence in her. Any normal person would have resigned there and then, but I am talking about robo May.

At least some of what is portrayed as anti-semitism is actually anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian sentiment. They are not the same thing.

40% of insects will be extinct by the end of a decade. No insects no pollination, no bird food, Apple trees being hand pollinated for ages now as there are not enough insects to do the job. Just to cheer you all up!

Agree dangermouse. But if you disagree with Israel attacking Palestinians though but have no problem with Jewish people at all does that still make you anti-semetic? This is a genuine question I'm asking.

I do not believe that the religious state is the whole religion, nor that Jews outside Israel are responsible for what goes on there. So I would say no. Anti-semitism is usually referred to as racism, which is the blind prejudice. I also draw a distinction between racism as blind prejudice against people of different colour for that difference alone, and a dislike of specific customs, behaviours and prejudices of other cultures where such dislike is warranted. Otherwise you could say being opposed to FGM is racist.

It's easy. Israel is a state. Which includes Christians and Muslims. I don't agree with many/most of its actions and would like to see a two state solution

Anti semitism is racism pure and simple. I can not understand it

Sorry for typos. I shouldn't post in the middle of the night! Obviously meant Lilly Madigan. She of the leaked members spreadsheet used to intimidate TERFs.

Thanks all for answering my question. It is so hard IMO nowadays to determine whether you are unintentionally racist in some way or other. I often opt for saying nothing in case I make a huge gaff and someone screams racist at me.

Not very conducive to freedom of speech being angsty about upsetting people ( sigh).