Westminstenders: Stuck in the Middle With TIGGERS

[RedToothBrush]

Well I don't know how we got here tonight.
We've got the feeling that something ain't right.
We're so scared as we leave the EU
And we're wondering how we'll get out of this stew

Antisemites to the left of me!
Dog Whistles to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

'Cause I'm stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.
And I'm wondering what it is we should do.
It's so hard to keep this smile from my face.
Losing control and running all over the place.

Clowns to the left of me!
Jokers to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle whilst we leave the EU.

When you started off with rights
And you're starting to wonder if thats for life.
And all the politicians come crawling
Slap you on the back and say
Please . . .
Please . . .
Vote Leave and back EU Withdrawal

But we see it makes no sense at all.

Best to keep your money offshore
Than to visit the bookstore

Deniers to the left of me!
Islamaphobes to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle with you.

Its finally happened. FINALLY.

MPs have seen that their leaders have lost the plot and are hell bent on destruction and politicial ideology ahead of practicality and will justify the unjustifable in the face of democracy and they have jumped ship.

Enter stage left and stage right: The TIGGERS - members of The Independent Group.

Will there be more. Hard to say no. It seems almost certain there will be more.

Will it make a difference? Difficult to call, but these MPs would be driven out sooner or later. Such is our accelerating politicial polarisation and narrowing of views. This is their last stand. They have nothing left to lose on a personal level.

Whether you agree with the TIGGERS or still look to the other parties for policy, I do think that the emergence of the TIGGERS marks a feeling of optimism and much needed hope for many many Remainers / Moderates, even if it ultimately does fizzle out.

A reflection from 2017: People voted for Corbyn because they were looking for Hope. When he's failed to deliver that, its led to disillusionment and he can not pull the same trick again at a future GE. This makes that doubly so. People are STILL very much looking for that hope. If Brexit does go tits up in a big fashion, then what happens? To what direction do people look? I'm sure there will be the bitterest of recriminations, but... hope is a big deal. We need something...

Tick tick tick. 37 days til Brexit.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation

Does anyone know or have a view on whether there are enough numbers in the House of Commons to support the amendment to support the WA but put it to a people's vote ?

How have we ended up arguing about Begum again. Sure there is a general connection with the ideology behind brexit and media and stuff but it's not really any more relevent than discussing vaccinations and there are lots of other threads about the topic if people want to argue about the detail of the case.

www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/02/21/the-real-brexit-cliff-edge-is-not-on-march-29th-it-s-july-1s
The real Brexit cliff edge is not on March 29th - it's July 1st

Ian Dunt.

As usual. Good

Oops, crossed posts with 2bees

I think the reason it has touched a nerve is because of the Government's ongoing demonstration of disregard for The Law.

Today Coveney was saying that he didn't want the backstop to be permanent. That gets jumped on by Brexiters/the ERG as meaning that the legal backing of the backstop can be taken out and it can be time limited . Which is not what Coveney meant at all : it was that Ireland hope that the "unless and until" bit of the backstop could come into force, sooner rather than later. ie that it wouldn't be needed any more, because proper and realistic alternative arrangements (whether that be a FTA or the mythical appropriate frictionless border arrangements are invented).

That is why the every i has to be dotted and every t crossed, with the backstop in a legally watertight agreement that is not time limited.

Because the UK Government is showing that it tries to wheedle its way out of international agreements and law, trying to find or exploit loopholes when they're not there (knowing that it will lose but not caring as it kicks the can further down the road and someone else can get the blame - and doing so at the taxpayers' expense )

Also depriving a born British citizen of their citizenship is a slippery slope. Where do you stop?!

...all those pesky offspring of pesky interfering EU citizens (naturalised or not, Settled status or not, ILR or not) for a start

See also: Windrush generation

.

Indeed. How many generations before anyone qualifies as bona fide citizen? What of children of mixed descent?
Once rights are eroded, there's no stopping that. Like a cliff eaten by the sea.

PMK

I am amused by how old school international driving licences are - a paper carnet and a glued on passport photo. He dated them from 29 March, so if we extend, that will be some money I've wasted.

This just popped up on mt FB feed
rather splendid

www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/are-you-fking-furious-enough-about-the-isis-bride-20190221182728

The very similar case in Alabama is making me highly suspicious that we're being played.

Getting the licence has made me wonder about JDD on Richard North's blogs and his ration cards. Has anyone seen him posting recently? I don't read that blog much anymore.

Even the tabloids are now waking up to the fact we are jumping off a cliff.

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1090923/Brexit-news-Pascal-Lamy-WTO-UK-EU-withdrawal-no-deal-trade-May-Juncker-latest

Mr Lamy (former WTO chief) has predicted neither London nor Brussels will allow negotiations to end in a no deal to avoid "jumping off the cliff without a parachute.?"
He continued: "What happens the next day is you move down from the first league to the fourth league.

He has tried the football analogy but STILL the mindless racist comments underneath. All those people & their families will be reliant on a good economy.

{UK driving licences will not be valid in Ireland under no-deal Brexit

British licence holders living in Ireland would need to get Irish licences before 29 March}

From the Guardian.
How is this going to be checked?
Seems like a bit of a border or surveillance might be needed?

I'm pleased to see that WTO related article in the Daily Express. Rabidly pro Brexit paper.

re provable crimes: the women would at least be guilty of joint criminal enterprise in the genocide

Any military force needs ancillary stuff, for cooking, cleaning, washing clothes, recruitment, fucking
and they specifically travelled to help IS

The men probably didn't go to do the gardening, but difficult to find survivors of their crimes
Ditto the women who flogged conquered women for any transgressions, or ordered their beheading

I don't want to stop the return of any of these IS terrorists, because I think the UK shouldn't get away with dumping their poisonous waste in other countries.

Of course, if the countries where they have committed their crimes want to investigate and try them, they have first dibs

Then since we ban football hooligans from travelling abroad, logically we should ban genocide junkies for life from travelling

So at least any people they murder in future will be in Britain

Sorry, back late.

Re UK twisting the law:

wrt removing citizenship, the Uk - like many other countries - specifically had legal provisos where they could do so
(which I'm against, btw, for reasons above)
however, that's just holding to the terms of the treaty they signed back in the 1960s

In the case of the backstop and the WA, the UK has specifically signed up to it, then reneged
That's why the EU - and probably other future trade partners - won't trust the UK

Just done an interesting YouGov ... trying to gauge opinion on quite a few topics in a nuanced (0-10 between two extremes) fashion. This is after asking if there are any parties I would never vote for, and whether I feel represented politically (I don't).

Given how long it was (and 50 points) and what I recall of YGs fees, this has some serious money behind it. Be curious if it was a Labour/Tory poll, or our TIG friends doing some toe-dipping. I'm guessing it's unlikely to be the latter ....

Talking of yougov I had an interesting one earlier this week. Two questions tacked on to a longer survey about hotel chains.

1. Should the ISIS bride lose her citizenship? (I said no)

1. Should MPs who leave their parties have to fight an immediate byelection (no).

I signed up to yougov for the points, turns out the rewards are rubbish but I'm sticking around to make my voice heard.

Is Corbyn still supporting the Venezuelan govt - and their banning of hunamitarian aid convoys ?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-latin-america-47338265/venezuela-crisis-lawmakers-clash-with-soldiers-over-aid-trucks

Tensions were high at a road blockade in Venezuela, as lawmakers clashed with soldiers stopping trucks from passing.

Opposition Juan Guaidó and his allies have been helping convoys of trucks head to neighbouring Brazil and Colombia to receive food and medicine organised by the US.

This is in defiance of President Nicolás Maduro, who denies Venezuela is in any crisis and has closed the border with Brazil amid the row over humanitarian aid.

www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/jeremy-corbyn-labour-split-decline-independent-group-election-brexit-a8788601.html

"The true significance of the Independent Group could be that it marks the point at which the forward march of Corbynism was halted."

< I think they have a lot more significance than this, hopefully stopping at least a No Deal Brexit,maybe even forcing a PV.
However, blocking Corbyn's rise looks to be one of the effects >

Tabloids on the turn.....

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1091034/Brexit-news-Nadine-Dorries-ERG-no-deal-UK-EU-withdrawal-backstop-Theresa-May-latest

Translation - We are all shit scared of being blamed.

Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell exclusively reveals how Luciana Berger was let down by Labour

The defections seem to have been his wakeup call - and he would be for Remain in a PV

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/shadow-chancellor-john-mcdonnell-exclusively-reveals-how-luciana-berger-was-let-down-by-labour-a4073906.html?amp&twitterr_impression=true

But he is brutal when it comes to the far left wanting to re-enter Labour.
On George Galloway he snaps: “He’s not coming back”,
and on Hatton he is hardly welcoming.
....
“You’d have to have [the remain] option,” he says

because if May’s deal is voted down, “then you’d have status quo, and that would be remain.”

How would he vote?
“Remain, remain,” he says without hesitation.

“I have done all the way through. And I’ve campaigned for remain.
My constituency voted leave. I was shocked.
But I’ve said all along if there was another one I’d campaign for remain and I’d vote for remain.”

Next time, politicians need to “make sure people are properly informed.”
He wants “a more rational, more reasonable debate than maybe occurred before the last referendum.”

< and this time, the Labour leadership must send off Corbyn to his allotment and campaign for Remain ! >