Westminstenders: Oh Look is that a fire in the Italian Capital?

[RedToothBrush]

Next stop: 27th Feb.

Where we will apparently have Cooper-Boles II which apparently will pass but still assumes that
a) the EU will grant us an extension despite our fuckwittery
b) that it will prevent accidental no deal, which it doesn't
c) glosses over the minor point that the only way to 100% prevent no deal is to say you'll revoke if everything else fails

Meanwhile in reality we leave in law on 29th March, despite the rest of the law having zero chance of being ready in time. Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal alike.

All that is actually happening is the Tories and Labour fighting amongst themselves. Corbyn is still pretending that Brexit isn't really that important and hoping it will just go away. May is still trying to compromise with the ERG - whom if you paying attention 18 months ago were obviously were never going to compromise on anything - cos they are fuckwitted swivel eyed loons.

Meanwhile the entire country has no other alternative but to assume no deal and act accordingly.

A deal on the 21st March (as is the planned date of the Meaningful Vote) is simply too late for planners. For them no deal has already happened even if it does never come to pass.

The strategy of brinkmanship has destroyed us. We just don't know it yet.

A Split in the Tory and Labour parties may well make matters even worse going forward with further political polarisation.

Where next for Brexit?

Who knows and does it even matter now? The damage is irreversible and will take at least a generation to heal wounds. Economically it may never be recoverable.

FUKD.

As I said on the other thread, if you don’t express a point of view - by unequivocally doing or saying something in public - people will infer you don’t have one.
We have already been told that 80% or so of people supported Brexit by voting Conservative or Labour.
Saying there’s no point or it’s too late is not helpful.

-paying out until after Brexit-

Why is a march-when-its-too-late going to be better than a petition-now though?

Or a march next weekend?

If absolutely nothing else a big turnout on the march increases pressure against a no deal. And that alone makes it worthwhile.

The protest that might make a difference is several million people surrounding the HoC on Feb 27th? and not letting the bastards out until they agree something, anything.

The MPs are likely to all be on a booze cruise on the 23rd March. Because we will be back to duty free limits the next week.

But the government can't just say 'shit there's 5 million people marching ok rule out no deal'. Even if they wanted to.

No deal is the default unless parliament agree something else in SUFFICIENT TIME and I don't think 23rd March gives remotely enough time.

Perpetuating the myth that parliament has until 29 March to decide what to do isn't helpful IMO, they need to do it NOW.

Marches have to be arranged well in advance. No one knew what would happen with the WA -it might have been voted through by now. So action for any other option is going right to the line with everything else. Open Britain are not stupid. They include Lord Kerr, who drafted Article 50. If they think there’s everything to play for, I’ll go along with it.

I agree that I don't honestly think the march with achieve anything, but I still wish I could go on it. There is still a value, even on an individual basis of a public joint expression of "not in my name". It reminds me of the iraq war marches back in the day. They didn't stop the war but I went on them and they created a strong sense of community. I know a lot of people for whom it was their first demo who have remained politically engaged ever since.

There is a need to create and nurture that community of resistance to deal with whatever comes next and to me this march can be as much about that as anything else.

5 million people marching might at least make MPs accept the WA, the least worst option, and we would be spared shortages of food and medicines and Kent being turned into a lorry park. Taking part is a no-brainer.

this march can be as much about that as anything else

Yy

That's why I'd love the march to be about expressing disgust about the party-before-country shenanigans we've witnessed.

There's back real risk of people just giving up and hunkering down right now. I know because I feel that way myself. But really we all know that WA or no deal this is only the start. People need a reason to come together and keep the momentum going so we can keep fighting after the 29th. The more I think about it the more I think we need this march.

We knew that marching against the Iraq War wouldn't change anything. It was still worth going on the march just to prove to Blair et al that he didn't have the country behind him.

If absolutely nothing else a big turnout on the march increases pressure against a no deal. And that alone makes it worthwhile

And actually being able to do something - anything - to publicly release all of our suppressed anger must surely be a cathartic and healing experience anyway, whatever the outcome?

5 million people marching might at least make MPs accept the WA

The March is Sat 23. It's discussed in the press on Sun 24. On Monday 25 the government says 'ok, let's have a vote ' and by the end of Monday 25 the meaningful vote is passed.

What happens then? They still have to agree the WAIB with only hours in which to do it, and still with ERG nutters disrupting the process. They need to agree the WA now.

Apologies if it's already been mentioned as I haven't had a chance to catch up with the thread this weekend.

There's a new march to demonstrate support for a PV on 23rd March in London.

They can’t, so won’t, agree the WA right now. It’s not in the schedule. Everything is driven by the Parliamentary timetable, and that’s determined by Government - which is why we’re in this fix now.

Sorry, just seen it's already being discussed!

Agree with both of these statements made by PP

• If absolutely nothing else a big turnout on the march increases pressure against a no deal. And that alone makes it worthwhile

And actually being able to do something - anything - to publicly release all of our suppressed anger must surely be a cathartic and healing experience anyway, whatever the outcome?*

How long does it take to have a PV - when would that be, at the earliest?

What are odds of EU27 agreeing to extend deadline until then?

I think there should have been a PV but I don't see how it would be even a remote possibility now.

I see the Donald feels confident enough to start telling us what we should do. The BBC reportage is interesting, choosing to use the word "tells" ... not "asks" "requests" "suggests" "advises".

Tells

Shame the frothy thread on the subject has filled up. I'd be curious to know what some posters felt about the Donald issuing orders. Especially as the UK is rather hidebound to suck it up, after all will no one think of the tradedeals ?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-47269887

President Trump has told the UK and other European allies to take back and put on trial more than 800 Islamic State (IS) group fighters captured in the final battle against the group.

(contd)

Ah, the smell of sovereignty in the morning.

BigChocFrenzy

I wonder how this will go down in the NI local elections: hmm
New law sneaked through Parliament to allow security forces to stop and search any person or vehicle near the border region, also to detain them
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/3/schedule/3/enacted

The new Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Act has been discussed in Parliament and the media for months. It's to tighten up security in the wake of the Manchester and London terrorist attacks - it's not unique to the Irish border;

services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/counterterrorismandbordersecurity/documents.html

The power to stop, question and detain at ports and borders (including the Irish border) is included in the Terrorism Act 2000;
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/schedule/7

I am also planning to stand in my District Council elections - decided to a couple of weeks ago.

And I now plan to go on that march.

I note the Sunday times reporting a minister talking about “losing Brexit”, as a risk mind you, which suggests to me that Revoke is at the back of their mind still, which gives me hope.

It does seem to be cutting it very fine to have the march so late, but I agree with previous posters that it is important to show that people are not just tuning it out, that those who did not want this have not just rolled over and resigned themselves to Brexit.

As far as a plan goes - the idea seems to be that this would galvanise MPs to go with the Kyle amendment that passes the WA but on condition it is ratified by a public vote. If the WA is not voted for by the public, we remain on current terms. Perfect solution.

The government has 'spent' around £80 Billion of our money on this 'project'.
The response needs to be more that say a Million people going to London and waving placards on sticks.